Any parents of gifted children here ?

Reply to Any parents of gifted children here ? on Sun, 01 Feb 2009 08:16:15 GMT

ChiefKiasu — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 08:16:15 GMT

Alright people… I have closed this thread as it has obviously gone past its expiry date. Clearly, there are too many viewpoints and issues for this one thread to propound. It is for this reason I did not create a special "All About…" topic for gifted children to start with.

Go create your own threads to discuss about the specific nuances of gifted children.

Reply to Any parents of gifted children here ? on Sun, 01 Feb 2009 08:01:18 GMT

tamarind — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 08:01:18 GMT

kiasulang,

Something I learn when my girl reads "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" to me. Whenever Mr Wonka hears something he does not like, he says "Why are you mumbling ? I cannot hear a word that you are saying !"

Some people should spend more time with their kids than posting unnecessary comments in the forum. Just because it is a public forum.

Reply to Any parents of gifted children here ? on Sun, 01 Feb 2009 07:57:38 GMT

kiasulang — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 07:57:38 GMT

Thanks again Tarmind

For a moment I thought my previous post is harsh but by comparison mine is peanut. There it goes, guess who is adding fuel to a fire. I agree we should simply ignore and move on.

Hi icemountain,

You are doing a great job.

Reply to Any parents of gifted children here ? on Sun, 01 Feb 2009 07:42:10 GMT

metz — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 07:42:10 GMT

kiasulang:
Thanks Tamarind

I keep wondering whether am I in the wrong forum. I believe this is Kiasu parents forum not \"Pretend\" parents forum. Or am I in the wrong tread \"any parents of gifted kids\" or \"any parents of assumed gifted kids\".

Spot on. Are you sure you are in the right thread? Majority of the contributors in this thread has no Numbers to speak of. So, whether it's any parents of gifted kids or any parents of assumed gifted, decide for yourself.

kiasulang:
Everything you mentioned was mostly from secondary sources. Just because ones choose to believe that their kids are gifted, but are they truly?

I suppose you mean those kids that I have mentioned. (Or do you mean the parents here who think their kids are gifted?) One kid that I personally knew went for the IQ test. Like yourself, the number meant something for the parents too. Another personal friend's kids went through primary GEP and are now in secondary schools. Others, like your case, I read about from forums. I don't question if others' kids are truly gifted, as in I never feel the need to have a number tag. If their parents feel so, well, they are. Which explains why I suspect there is a great number of gifted kids around. I don't ask them to send their kids for assessments to prove it.

kiasulang:
If those who followed this tread carefully, you will know who started the spark by quoting \"Even with the gifted test results, what do the numbers mean?\". It's unfair to those parents who send their kids for assessment. It's ironical to see someone who disapprove of our education system still put their children in one and being an educator here puzzled me.

Yup, it's just a number meaningless to me. I have no idea if my kids are gifted or not. Great if they are. Great if they are not. It doesn't bother me. After all, I am not gifted too. I don't understand how my thought towards the Numbers is unfair to those who send their kids for assessment.

kiasulang:
I don't disagree for the sake of disagreeing. Do you really believe you know everything? If not why comment based on I heard from so and so. I write only of things that I have experienced not by heresay. Mostly importantly, I know which tread to write.

Everything written here is for your reference and discretion. For those who misunderstood my intention, please read the tread from where the spark ignite. why take it so hard when I said \"the number means much more to me\". I don't poke my nose on every postings-- homeschooling must comment, GEP must comment, enrichment must comment, everything must comment. why??

Seriously, I think you are the one taking things too hard. Chicken and Duck talk again.

Why must comment? Excuse me, this is a public forum for all to comment. Do you mean we need to seek your approval before commenting? Start your own blog on Getting your kids assessed before labeling them as Gfited. You will never see me commenting.

kiasulang:
This tread is for parents to share their experience on working on our gifted kids. Do you know that it is not easy to raise a gifted child? Of course you don't, you are not in the club. Do you really believe that a child who is advance than his peers is gifted? Think again and don't make your children believe that. If you have read my previous tread, you will know that I believe in \"Play to Learn and Learn to Play\" when I teach my children. I have never tell my friends and relatives about my son's abilities. I'm just a believer that a gifted child will have a gifted siblings, why is that so hard for you to digest?

Nope, I don't have a kid who has been labeled or formally assessed as gifted by any professional. I certainly hear you loud and clear through all the threads, especially so in this thread. (Though I can't vouch for others.) I have always thought of my kids as smart and fantastic kids. Right, I realised my mistake in joining this thread. If you have read the threads carefully, I have never claimed my kids are gifted. Is it so hard for you to swallow that giftedness is perhaps something others treat with indifference? Perhaps it will do a lot better if you tell your friends and relatives about your sons' abilities.

kiasulang:
Very much we would like to believe our judgments are right, sometimes different circumstances need different measures. That's what this forum is for. For raising a gifted child is not what you have read from secondary sources and pretend to be an education expert and start posting comments. Free advice to you, get first hand informations before you comment in this tread.

Not that I can remember anybody has post any comments about raising certified gifted kids here. Majority here are either, as your put it, assumed gifted or from GEP (which you claimed it's different from being gifted). My only comments about truly gifted kids are that they usually come with difficulties too.

Reply to Any parents of gifted children here ? on Sun, 01 Feb 2009 07:14:23 GMT

tamarind — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 07:14:23 GMT

kiasulang,

You are in the right forum and the right thread ! I really hope that you can post more in this thread. Your views are very valuable. We are all doing what is best for our kids. No one else has the right to judge us.

I cannot believe that a person who claims to be an educator can be so rude and insensitive in the forum, and be so quick to make personal attacks on other people. But I have developed a very thick skin now, I simply ignore any criticisms by such narrow minded people.

I found out in the internet that many states in US require pre-schools to have special programs for gifted children. I wonder why the pre-school educators in Singapore are so backward ?

I remember what you wrote about your son’s pre-school principal. I think she is one of the very rare ones who truly understands the needs of gifted children.

icemountain,
I want you to know that I respect your efforts to homeschool your child. If I can afford to stay at home, I would also homeschool my kids, at least to 6 years old. The reason is because I believe that young children benefit most from one to one attention. If I teach them at home, then each of them can develop at their own pace and there is no need to conform to the others.

What you are doing is great and is the best thing that you can possibly do for your child !

Reply to Any parents of gifted children here ? on Sun, 01 Feb 2009 06:41:56 GMT

icemountain — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 06:41:56 GMT

ks2me

I’m glad to read a much more measured and cool-headed response to my post.

Homeschooling involves a huge commitment and sacrifice of personal time, no homeschooler would go in without his/her eyes wide open. Your points have been raised and disputed in the various homeschool communities and books I’ve read.

I’ve met many local homeschooling families and children when I considered this option for my younger one and what I see with my eyes does not equal to what you’ve said here. Like you said, kids are smart and they are resilient. That point I agree so I rest my case.

I myself for one, would not homeschool in the primary years, not for the points you’ve made, but because I can’t make that kind of sacrifice. I totally respect those who do.

Like I said, to each is own.

Yes, I admit getting carried away when I read your post because it does seem (to me) particularly vitriolic and sarcastic which is unnecessary and hurtful.

My post was a continuation of previous posts on homeschooling and yes, I’m well aware it’s a thread for gifted kids. Sarcasm noted.

Tamarind, thanks for your reminder on posting etiquette. I am a newbie here and have lots to learn from and share with parents here. I do hope that others extend the same courtesy to me.

I shall end my comments on this topic here.

Reply to Any parents of gifted children here ? on Sun, 01 Feb 2009 06:28:54 GMT

ChiefKiasu — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 06:28:54 GMT

chamonix:
...As what CKS said, thinking individuals are more important in today's world. But how do we proceed on this? Any wise advice to share, Chief?

I am neither as wise or experienced as some of the folks here. What I know is the following:

1. Humans are rooted in what we believe, and our actions and interpretation of what we experience (listen, read, feel, etc) are our attempts in rationalizing our beliefs. We are happy when our observations appear to affirm our beliefs. We get upset when things don't fit as well.

2. If you accept point 1, it is easy to see how powerful the ability to shape the belief system of a person is. Whoever/Whatever controls what others believe in can literally control the actions of others. Charismatic leaders have used this to their advantage, and religious wars are caused by the differences in beliefs.

3. The ability to think is the ability to suspend our own belief system - to stand back, float outside the issue so that you can see the full picture as an external, dispassionate observer, just so you can understand for yourself how each individual action culminates into the final outcome. Some call it the \"butterfly effect\", where the wings of a butterfly in one part of the world can ultimately cause a typhoon in another seemingly unrelated part of the world. Often, we make decisions that appear to be relevant to the situation at a specific point in time, yet in the big picture, that decision itself may be totally wrong and perhaps even going against our fundamental beliefs.

Example 1: You believe that friends should help friends. Your closest friend comes to you to borrow money so that he can pay off loan sharks from whom he borrowed to support his gambling habit. You help him by giving him what he needs. A month later he ends up dead, having committed suicide because he spent the money he borrowed from you in the casinos because HE believed that he needs to make back the money so that he can return it back to you. In this case, it is actually your action based on your noble belief that indirectly killed your friend. If you had instead refused to give him the money, but insist that he face the consequences by becoming a bankrupt or going to jail, and subsequently help him get back on his feet when you see him making a real effort in cleaning up his act, then you would have taken the right action to support your conviction of helping friends.

Example 2: You believe that your child should be well prepared for his Primary school so that he will have an easy time in P1. To do so, you focus on preparing him based on the syllabus of P1 on a daily basis, essentially bringing forward the lessons of P1 into the child's time in Kindergarten. Your child becomes very well prepared but loses interest in learning and studying because he finds it a chore and feels that he is only doing it to satisfy you. He does well in school but will only study if you push him. You become a full time teacher at home, frustrated and tired. Perhaps if you have focused more on preparing your child on the love for learning, and not so much on him getting his facts and working right, things may have worked out differently?

4. To be thinking individuals and be able to evaluate the consequences of our actions before we embark on a course of action, we need information, facts and figures. We need to see all angles to a problem - not just the good, but also the bad, so that we understand the opportunity costs of our action. In other words, we need to keep an OPEN MIND, discuss the issues at hand, evaluate feedback, and respond to criticism to our ideas not as criticism to ourselves, but rather new angles at looking at problems.

Is that easy to achieve? Definitely not. Because we are humans afterall, and we are rooted in our convictions. But if we don't try, we'll never know what we can achieve.

Reply to Any parents of gifted children here ? on Sun, 01 Feb 2009 04:45:18 GMT

kiasulang — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 04:45:18 GMT

Thanks Tamarind

I keep wondering whether am I in the wrong forum. I believe this is Kiasu parents forum not \"Pretend\" parents forum. Or am I in the wrong tread \"any parents of gifted kids\" or \"any parents of assumed gifted kids\".

It is very easy to be in the back seat commenting and criticizing. It's easy to watch a movie and criticize but please give credits to those in the casts and personnel involved. How can you possibly know first hand when you do not spend 24 hours of your days involving gifted kids. Everything you mentioned was mostly from secondary sources. Just because ones choose to believe that their kids are gifted, but are they truly?

If those who followed this tread carefully, you will know who started the spark by quoting \"Even with the gifted test results, what do the numbers mean?\". It's unfair to those parents who send their kids for assessment. It's ironical to see someone who disapprove of our education system still put their children in one and being an educator here puzzled me.

I don't disagree for the sake of disagreeing. Do you really believe you know everything? If not why comment based on I heard from so and so. I write only of things that I have experienced not by heresay. Mostly importantly, I know which tread to write.

Everything written here is for your reference and discretion. For those who misunderstood my intention, please read the tread from where the spark ignite. why take it so hard when I said \"the number means much more to me\". I don't poke my nose on every postings-- homeschooling must comment, GEP must comment, enrichment must comment, everything must comment. why??

This tread is for parents to share their experience on working on our gifted kids. Do you know that it is not easy to raise a gifted child? Of course you don't, you are not in the club. Do you really believe that a child who is advance than his peers is gifted? Think again and don't make your children believe that. If you have read my previous tread, you will know that I believe in \"Play to Learn and Learn to Play\" when I teach my children. I have never tell my friends and relatives about my son's abilities. I'm just a believer that a gifted child will have a gifted siblings, why is that so hard for you to digest?

Very much we would like to believe our judgments are right, sometimes different circumstances need different measures. That's what this forum is for. For raising a gifted child is not what you have read from secondary sources and pretend to be an education expert and start posting comments. Free advice to you, get first hand informations before you comment in this tread.

Reply to Any parents of gifted children here ? on Sat, 31 Jan 2009 22:47:05 GMT

tamarind — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 22:47:05 GMT

Every one is entitled to his or her different opinions.

There is a reason why forums are setup in such a way that you can create different threads with different subject titles.

Can everyone please re-read the title of this thread ? If a person does not believe that there is a such thing as \"gifted children\", then why continue on and on in this thread ? Since you are not going to change anyone's mind, then why waste your time ? You have all the freedom to post in other threads.

No one in this thread has ever written anything about not educating children of all abilities equally. Or \"not celebrating\" the joy of taking care of kids whether they are average or not.

I am also an educator. I believe that children of different abilities, will benefit from being taught using different methods. In fact, children who have an unusually high ability to learn, requires a lot less effort from the educator. However, they must be taught differently, because they can understand concepts effortlessly and they can move ahead much faster than other kids. We actually need to think of more \"intelligent methods\" to teach them, which is the main point of this thread. And I don't mean only pumping them academic knowledge. In fact I taught my girl jewelry making(bracelets and earrings), map reading, baking, stitching, etc. I do not let her do the Junior Math Olympiad book. I feel that it is only necessary to introduce the concepts to her. We introduce the concepts of negative numbers, geometry, fractions, etc, but we don't drill her at all.

I have also started another thread about average kids, and I have mentioned that these kids require much more effort and patience from the educator. We also need to make learning much more \"fun\" for them, because their attention span is very short. They need to be taught using more effective methods, for example, the Ladybird keyword reading scheme which uses repetitions of words. Such methods are not required by children of high learning ability. However, average children require many repetitions in order to remember things, so the Ladybird scheme is good for them.

Any educator who thinks that all children should be taught using the same methods, obviously do not have real experience teaching children who have huge gaps in their abilities. The principal of any school, will probably find it so much easier to use one method to teach all children, because that makes his or her work so much easier.

Reply to Any parents of gifted children here ? on Sat, 31 Jan 2009 22:28:19 GMT

tamarind — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 22:28:19 GMT

I try to follow these rules when posting in forums. Hopefully everyone can read and understand these rules.

I wonder if some people really talk(in real life) like the way they write online ?

THE CORE RULES OF NETIQUETTE

http://www.albion.com/netiquette/corerules.html

Quote:
Rule 1: Remember the human

The golden rule your parents and your kindergarten teacher taught you was pretty simple: Do unto others as you'd have others do unto you. Imagine how you'd feel if you were in the other person's shoes. Stand up for yourself, but try not to hurt people's feelings.

In cyberspace, we state this in an even more basic manner: Remember the human.

When you communicate electronically, all you see is a computer screen. You don't have the opportunity to use facial expressions, gestures, and tone of voice to communicate your meaning; words -- lonely written words -- are all you've got. And that goes for your correspondent as well.

Rule 2: Adhere to the same standards of behavior online that you follow in real life

In real life, most people are fairly law-abiding, either by disposition or because we're afraid of getting caught. In cyberspace, the chances of getting caught sometimes seem slim. And, perhaps because people sometimes forget that there's a human being on the other side of the computer, some people think that a lower standard of ethics or personal behavior is acceptable in cyberspace.

The confusion may be understandable, but these people are mistaken. Standards of behavior may be different in some areas of cyberspace, but they are not lower than in real life.

Reply to Any parents of gifted children here ? on Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:48:34 GMT

corneyAmber — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:48:34 GMT

icemountain:
ks2me, pardon me but your post is full of ranting, presumptions and personal judgments. If you didn't mean to come across as harsh, I'm sorry to tell you it sure doesn't seem that way.

Sorry you read wrongly, read again, emotions must be overwhelming... I admitted I was harsh to the parents clearly in the post.

icemountain:
I'm not propounding why homeschooling is better than going to mainstream. I chose what I want to do for what I believe. At the same time, I do not criticise those who prefer sending their child to school. I'm sure those who homeschool would appreciate the same respect from those who do not agree. To each his own, live and let live. No need to bring in GOD here IMO.

There is nothing to criticise for those sending kids to school cos if we don't, we would be criticised and \"persecuted\" by the authorities. Don't get me wrong, I am not against homeschooling, only having a view of people with few kids using homeschooling as an excuse to fulfill own desires, nothing so beneficial for the children. My concern is for the children. Just a wake-up call for people without the sound objective plus I don't like the idea that the homeschool kids eventually can potentially lose out in PSLE exam to kids going to school having same aggregate because of the rules fixed by MOE. If MOE rule cannot change yet, it would be best that parents think carefully the merits of homeschooling.

icemountain:
What is wrong with what I WANT and WILL for my child? How is it different from parents who send their children to all sorts of enrichment classes, tuition, the best schools etc? How is it different from every parent who is looking at this forum? From the way you have written, it seems you think a homeschooled child has every step of his life planned out for him.

Firstly, your child is not the \"ONLY\" child, this does not apply to you unless you admit to stifling your kids with homeschooling?

icemountain:
I do not agree with your view that a child must be left alone out of parents' sight to fend for himself and a homeschooling child is necessarily \"protected\". If fights were to occur in school, would you not want the teachers to intervene? If a child goes to school, wouldn't he be under the watchful eye of his teachers? When is he ever left alone?

Obviously you do not have a child going to school so all these are your presumptions. If there are 30 children in the class, do you think the teacher can be so watchful on top of their heavy admin work? I tell you how they cope. They pull out the \"streetsmart\" kids in the class to help maintain this order and control. And if anything goes wrong, it would be the children reporting what has happened, not the teacher. haha. Now you know what some homeschool kids can be missing? Also the size of school in primary schools is alot larger, there will be many moments a child can be left alone, like going to the toilet/changing(there are toilets in many parts of the school) or running around looking for their schoolbags, going to the bookshop.....etc.. Some children can be so lost...do they need to learn how to steer themselves on their own? and do you know that the safest training ground is actually the school?

icemountain:
For one, I do not hover around my child when we go playgrounds. I don't know of many parents who do. If she were to have any disagreements, I let her be and would intervene only necessary. If she were to go school, I would rightly expect teachers to do the same.

I am also a parent, instinctively we will look, even feel the presence. Letting go is complete when a child completely disappears under your nose and in another environment. Also, it may not be your issue, the child assumes mum is always there....so the sense of responsibility for oneself diminishes....\"She(mum) will look out for me\". This is the handicap impact on the child. It hurts to know the truth but better to come to terms with it.

icemountain:
I do not choose to homeschool because I think my child is advanced or superior. And homeschooling parents I've met do not say that their children are gifted too so I'm puzzled at your presumption. If people still thinking homeschooling = hothousing, I'm quite disappointed that this misconception still prevails. Perhaps it's better for them to read up more and get to know homeschoolers before making this assumption.

Sorry if I have mistaken, I apologise sincerely because this thread is about 'gifted kids' ma... OK, gather your thoughts again... we are talking about homeschooling for \"only\" and for gifted \"only\" because this is thread for 'gifted' kids! got it? Maybe you just jump into this discussion without looking at the focus, I forgive you (tongue-in-cheek) Misconception will always be there but the point here is not about homeschooling = hothousing so generally. Honestly, I am still not clear what you are trying to defend or argue. Cool down first and re-read my post, then you know it does not apply to you.

I just took your last statement to make a point on homeschooling for \"only\" because it refers to social interaction. I also qualify that the discussion is not directed at you but generally those with 'only' kid and homeschooling the kid. Hope this clarifies, no point growing a gray hair over my posting not meant for you specifically

icemountain:
Edited to add: And nope, she's not the only child.

Glad to know that she is not an \"only\" child.

Reply to Any parents of gifted children here ? on Sat, 31 Jan 2009 15:57:55 GMT

ChiefKiasu — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 15:57:55 GMT

I'm not sure if I have the full picture - it's a LOONNG thread - but it seems like there is an ensuing argument about sending children for assessment?

Personally, I don't give 2 hoots about measuring the intelligence of my own children. Maybe I'm afraid I'll be disappointed by the test results as kiasulang postulated, but more because I have already accepted that my kids are just bright kids and not gifted by GEP's yardstick so I don't need no confirmation of that fact. But I can imagine how parents with truly gifted kids (in the GEP sense) would value such measurements just so they can confirm their suspicions and take the necessary action to work with such kids.

Also, I don't recall seeing anything posted by anybody who say that such assessments are evil. In fact, I felt that Chamonix went out of her way to explain her stand, which happens to be quite similar to mine. So I'm really puzzled how the discussion got so personal.

There is no need to use strong language directed at any individual in the Forum. If we parents cannot engage in discussions in a cordial manner, how can we expect our children to do so in their discussions?

Reply to Any parents of gifted children here ? on Sat, 31 Jan 2009 15:55:34 GMT

corneyAmber — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 15:55:34 GMT

chamonix:
I thought I must the only odd one to think kids are much more than just numbers.

Yup, enough of chicken and duck talk here. Never did I expect a simple sharing would spiral into this...

No, you are not the odd one. I will not tag my child with a number or label. It is only indicative of some form of guidance and direction at best and that's all. Nothing is so absolute in life.
Some of us need a structure to guide our lives.
Some of us need a passion to guide our lives.
Most of us need both.

The extreme will always stand out.

Reply to Any parents of gifted children here ? on Sat, 31 Jan 2009 14:55:01 GMT

metz — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 14:55:01 GMT

insider:
kiasulang:
Come join the club only if you have a child either in mensa or GEP before you whine. If not I have nothing to write to you.... with so much writing and nothing concrete.

As an educator, I celebrate the joy of taking care / educating young kids, whether they are average kids, beautiful / ugly, or with special needs (learning disabilities / physically handicapped / gifted / etc).

Since Chamonix's repeated words of she also shares similar stance of we should celebrate kids of any abilities seems to be fallen on deaf ears guess there is no point having further chicken and duck talk here. (I actually find her writing gentle and sensible all the while until maybe later part got agitated. I am reading her writing from an intellectual exchange point of view instead of trying to 'win' anything. Even till then, she still maintains her position that she is not objecting anybody from sending their kids for whatever testing that each deems fit.)

Go enjoy looking at your Numbers and do your own celebrations. Cheers!

Hi Insider,

Thanks for lending a voice. For a moment, I thought I must the only odd one to think kids are much more than just numbers.

Yup, enough of chicken and duck talk here. Never did I expect a simple sharing would spiral into this...

Reply to Any parents of gifted children here ? on Sat, 31 Jan 2009 14:36:18 GMT

metz — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 14:36:18 GMT

kiasulang:
chamonix:
[quote=\"kiasulang\"]

It means a lot to me because it determines the number of child I woulld like to have.
As I have mentioned countless times, I respect and keep stressing that the IQ quotient is important to the parents concerned. Neither does the number nor how the parent utilizes the number has no impact on me or others. You don't owe anybody an explanation. I may be wrong, but you seem bothered that nobody takes your number seriously.

Perhaps I come across as being sceptical about giftedness. But my view is every kid is gfited in his or her own way. Not meeting the list of standard gifted criteria doesn't imply the kid is any less precious than one who appears to meet the mark. Not having a IQ number tagged on the kid doesn't mean the kid is any less capable than one who has been formally labelled. And vice versa, a kid who's been suspected to be gifted or has been tagged gifted is neither more superior than the average normal kids. I am proud to say that I'm surrounded by average normal kids who are a joy to be with. And for friends with gifted kids or kids from GEP, I feel happy and proud for them too.

I'm not bother by any body. I'm just disgusted about what you said in this tread. I don't understand why you resent so much about assessing a child. Are you afraid of being disappointed? Come join the club only if you have a child either in mensa or GEP before you whine. If not I have nothing to write to you.... with so much writing and nothing concrete.[/quote]That goes for how I feel towards you too. The only thing you value most and talk about is just getting kids tested and the numbers they are tagged. Without the numbers, the kids are nothing... really a sad and revolting thought.

Indeed, I don't have a concrete number to talk about. Perhaps, you should announce the precious number and gather like-minded parents and discuss about the Numbers . Get my kids assessed just to join your club? No thanks, I wouldn't want to end up being obsessed with Numbers. Got better things to do.

Btw, I have nothing to whine. Both my kids are intelligent and happy children with absolute zero need for tagging. The tests will not tell me anything I don't already know nor change the way I view and love them. With or without the gfited label (by professional), to me, they are and always will be far more intelligent and precious than any other kids who has been tagged.

Reply to Any parents of gifted children here ? on Sat, 31 Jan 2009 14:25:26 GMT

kiasulang — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 14:25:26 GMT

chamonix:
kiasulang:

It means a lot to me because it determines the number of child I woulld like to have.
As I have mentioned countless times, I respect and keep stressing that the IQ quotient is important to the parents concerned. Neither does the number nor how the parent utilizes the number has no impact on me or others. You don't owe anybody an explanation. I may be wrong, but you seem bothered that nobody takes your number seriously.

Perhaps I come across as being sceptical about giftedness. But my view is every kid is gfited in his or her own way. Not meeting the list of standard gifted criteria doesn't imply the kid is any less precious than one who appears to meet the mark. Not having a IQ number tagged on the kid doesn't mean the kid is any less capable than one who has been formally labelled. And vice versa, a kid who's been suspected to be gifted or has been tagged gifted is neither more superior than the average normal kids. I am proud to say that I'm surrounded by average normal kids who are a joy to be with. And for friends with gifted kids or kids from GEP, I feel happy and proud for them too.

Reply to Any parents of gifted children here ? on Sat, 31 Jan 2009 13:50:11 GMT

metz — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 13:50:11 GMT

kiasulang:

It means a lot to me because it determines the number of child I woulld like to have.

As I have mentioned countless times, I respect and keep stressing that the IQ quotient is important to the parents concerned. Neither does the number nor how the parent utilizes the number has no impact on me or others. You don't owe anybody an explanation. I may be wrong, but you seem bothered that nobody takes your kid's number seriously.

Perhaps I come across as being sceptical about giftedness. But my view is every kid is gfited in his or her own way. Not meeting the list of standard gifted criteria doesn't imply the kid is any less precious than one who appears to meet the mark. Not having a IQ number tagged on the kid doesn't mean the kid is any less capable than one who has been formally labelled. And vice versa, a kid who's been suspected to be gifted or has been tagged gifted is neither more superior than the average normal kids. I am proud to say that I'm surrounded by many smart (but unlabeled) kids who are a joy to be with. And for friends with gifted kids or kids from GEP, I feel happy and proud for them too. What I think of gifted kids is that they are special (and sometimes, a pain) in their own ways.

Reply to Any parents of gifted children here ? on Sat, 31 Jan 2009 13:18:40 GMT

metz — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 13:18:40 GMT

kiasulang:

No test systems can claim that they are 100% sound. It is naive to think that one with reasonable mindset would believe that. It can only serve as an indicator like I had mentioned some treads before. It serves me well and I'm happy with it. Obviously, no one can force anyone to believe that.

Indeed. No one can force anyone to believe what others think. As many have expressed here, they don't need the magical number to believe that their kids are unique and special.

kiasulang:
Please refer to MOE site before you made that statement. GEP classes are not scrapped in Secondary school, they are merely not centrally run by GEB. Instead they are replaced by school-based gifted education programmes in their respective IP schools.

Weird but from what I understand, the now so called school-based gifted education programme does accept kids who were not formerly from the primary GEP programme.

kiasulang:
sad to read that you have received such negative feedbacks. I do have a few foreign friends who only praise our system. I have always supported my education systems. Through constantly changing and fault-findings, we can achieve a better one. I wondered if you would put your children to one of our primary schools???

Well, that's my encounter from staying abroad. And yes, I am putting my kids in the local primary school. Basically, I have neither complaints nor praises about our local education system. It has given me a good education despite its many imperfections.

kiasulang:
How do you know they will not score beyond the max limits? Why don't you ask them?

No, I don't know. If I ever have the chance to ask them, I'll definitely ask them to pay you a visit and share more on being gifted.

kiasulang:
There are always extreme cases with extreme parents. That doesn't mean majority of kids are so.

Yes, I agree. Not all but there are some black sheep.

kiasulang:
I have said before, a child can only be born gifted, and formally tested can you be certain that he/she is gifted. No amount of training, we, parents can do to make that happen. It is a gift, apart from that they are as normal as every one. However, no one will deny the fact that his child is gifted to him.

No, I don't believe that gifted can be trained. But I believe that there's a greater percentage of gifted children present in Singapore based on the current available gifted tests, meaning I believe we have more intelligent kids around. If the gifted tests were made affordable for preschoolers, I believe we will see a greater number of gifted cases than the current numbers.

Reply to Any parents of gifted children here ? on Sat, 31 Jan 2009 11:05:57 GMT

kiasulang — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 11:05:57 GMT

chamonix:
kiasulang:

I believe you have underestimate the IQ test systems, no amount of work you have done, can increase the IQ score. They have been around for decades and used as reference for admitting to some of the prestigious junior school and even U in the world. However, being gifted doesn't means you will be high achiever, unless you are intellectually gifted, self-discipline and hardworking plus luck.

The number system has always been around us, PSLE score, GCE score, A level score.....

Why do you think our GEP has survived 25 years and still counting? Every year the number about 500 will be selected. Our population is very small compared to others, how come we are always mentioned in international competitions? What makes the tiny country stands out in the world, I think this number is the key to success.

I believe bad behaviour is not one of the characteristics of giftedness. It is the growing stage of every child, whether within the parents' control or outside influence. When my elder son was young, about 3 years old, many of my friends and relatives saw him as a nuisance. However, I would say that he was only exploring his world. Today, I'm happy.
Is GEP really surviving in our school context? Then how do you explain the GEP classes in secondary schools were totally scrapped? And really, can one equate gifted with GEP? If so, why are there minimum requirements to be met in GEP? To sift out those who got in by chance? Well then, doesn't that shed light on how credible the GEP tests are.

Please refer to MOE site before you made that statement. GEP classes are not scrapped in Secondary school, they are merely not centrally run by GEB. Instead they are replaced by school-based gifted education programmes in their respective IP schools.

charmonix:
Does the number really make our country stand out internationally? Pardon me, I keep meeting people who wonder if Singapore is part of China. Since our education is so successful in churning out the precious successful number, then why is our education policies and systems changing constantly? And what does the number represent to others? The sad fact that Singapore is good at drilling. Have all the magical number make any significant contributions to the world? What makes them more superior than the rest?

It sad to read that you have received such negative feedbacks. I do have a few foreign friends who only praise our system. I have always supported my education systems. Through constantly changing and fault-findings, we can achieve a better one. I wondered if you would put your children to one of our primary schools???

charmonix:
If Albert Einstein and Thomas Edison were to take the so called gifted tests when they were 4 or 5 years old, I do wonder what the number would be.

How do you know they will not score beyond the max limits? Why don't you ask them?

charmonix:
Yes, bad behaviour is part of growing up. No matter how badly our kids behave, most of us would discipline them and still think them as angels. However, I have heard of kids that misbehave in classes and show no respect to others. All their parents have to offer is that the kids are gifted and teachers should show more understanding towards them.

There are always extreme cases with extreme parents. That doesn't mean majority of kids are so.

Reply to Any parents of gifted children here ? on Sat, 31 Jan 2009 11:02:54 GMT

tamarind — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 11:02:54 GMT

Hi everyone,

Please learn to respect different opinions.

I don't see why anyone has to criticize one parent's choice to homeschool, or to send his child for assessment, or send her child to Shichida etc. It is the parents' choice and it does not concern anyone else. Why are some people so ready to hurt other people's feelings ? Please learn to be more sensitive to others.

There is a reason why the title of my thread is \"Any parents of gifted children ?\" For those who do not believe in the term \"gifted\", why bother reading or posting in this thread ? You are free to create any other thread and post there. BTW, there is another thread called \"Is your child gifted ? Probably not.\" http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=913&start=30 That thread should be the place to argue about the term \"gifted\".

Reply to Any parents of gifted children here ? on Sat, 31 Jan 2009 10:04:12 GMT

metz — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 10:04:12 GMT

kiasulang:

I believe you have underestimate the IQ test systems, no amount of work you have done, can increase the IQ score. They have been around for decades and used as reference for admitting to some of the prestigious junior school and even U in the world. However, being gifted doesn't means you will be high achiever, unless you are intellectually gifted, self-discipline and hardworking plus luck.

The number system has always been around us, PSLE score, GCE score, A level score.....

Why do you think our GEP has survived 25 years and still counting? Every year the number about 500 will be selected. Our population is very small compared to others, how come we are always mentioned in international competitions? What makes the tiny country stands out in the world, I think this number is the key to success.

I believe bad behaviour is not one of the characteristics of giftedness. It is the growing stage of every child, whether within the parents' control or outside influence. When my elder son was young, about 3 years old, many of my friends and relatives saw him as a nuisance. However, I would say that he was only exploring his world. Today, I'm happy.

Likewise, I think you have overestimated the power of IQ tests and importance of the magic numbers. Here's a link on the development of IQ tests http://psychology.about.com/od/psychologicaltesting/a/int-history.htm (don't we enjoy culling info & researches from the internet to back up our beliefs?). This particular section catches my eyes.

However, Binet himself did not believe that his psychometric instruments could be used to measure a single, permanent and inborn level of intelligence (Kamin, 1995). Binet stressed the limitations of the test, suggesting that intelligence is far too broad a concept to quantify with a single number. Instead, he insisted that intelligence is influenced by a number of factors, changes over time and can only be compared among children with similar backgrounds (Siegler, 1992)

Indeed, I believe many factors (such as more educated parents, nurturing environment) would affect the magic IQ number. And till now, has there been any credible IQ studies on kids from similar backgrounds vs different backgrounds to prove that gifted or IQ tests can indeed sift out true inborn intelligence? Even for the WISC test, can one deny a preschooler who's been spoken to in adult language since young would have a higher verbal score than one who who has only been exposed to baby language? Has anybody done a study to prove that IQ doesn't change over time? Then why the need to keep revising the numbers and ceilings? If we were to do a study over time, would the IQ results be the same for kids who lived a century ago and kids in today's fast moving world?

Is GEP really surviving in our school context? Then how do you explain the GEP classes in secondary schools were totally scrapped? And really, can one equate gifted with GEP? If so, why are there minimum requirements to be met in GEP? To sift out those who got in by chance? Well then, doesn't that shed light on how credible the GEP tests are.

Does the number really make our country stand out internationally? Pardon me, I keep meeting people who wonder if Singapore is part of China. Since our education is so successful in churning out the precious successful number, then why is our education policies and systems changing constantly? And what does the number represent to others? The sad fact that Singapore is good at drilling. Have all the magical number make any significant contributions to the world? What makes them more superior than the rest?

If Albert Einstein and Thomas Edison were to take the so called gifted tests when they were 4 or 5 years old, I do wonder what the number would be.

Yes, bad behaviour is part of growing up. No matter how badly our kids behave, most of us would discipline them and still think them as angels. However, I have heard of kids that misbehave in classes and show no respect to others. All their parents have to offer is that the kids are gifted and teachers should show more understanding towards them.

Reply to Any parents of gifted children here ? on Sat, 31 Jan 2009 09:28:58 GMT

kiasulang — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 09:28:58 GMT

csc:
kiasulang:

Why do you think our GEP has survived 25 years and still counting? Every year the [b]number about 500 will be selected. Our population is very small compared to others, how come we are always mentioned in international competitions? What makes the tiny country stands out in the world, I think this number is the key to success.

If you are to follow the discussion closely, I mean taking part in international competitions (math, science, etc).

csc:
I don't think it's only the 500 who contribute to the success of our country....there are many others including foreign workers who have played a part in that... Everyone is indispensable, you know.... Without the others (i don't know how many), you think the 500 can do it on their own?

Even for a movie to be successful, every castings, and personnels are important. However, who gets to be mentioned?

Reply to Any parents of gifted children here ? on Sat, 31 Jan 2009 09:17:12 GMT

kiasulang — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 09:17:12 GMT

csc:
kiasulang:

The number certainly means a lot to me. Study found that \"when one child child in a family has been formally identified as gifted, all of the siblings brought forward for testing also qualified as gifted\"

It means a lot to me because it determines the number of child I woulld like to have.

(in my opinion, being gifted and being in the gifted program are different)

Certainly, you are right to mention that. It's sadden to see that a study report which means a lot to me can be daunting to others.

Reply to Any parents of gifted children here ? on Sat, 31 Jan 2009 09:06:07 GMT

csc — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 09:06:07 GMT

kiasulang:

Why do you think our GEP has survived 25 years and still counting? Every year the number about 500 will be selected. Our population is very small compared to others, how come we are always mentioned in international competitions? What makes the tiny country stands out in the world, I think this number is the key to success.

I don't think it's only the 500 who contribute to the success of our country....there are many others including foreign workers who have played a part in that... Everyone is indispensable, you know.... Without the others (i don't know how many), you think the 500 can do it on their own?

Also the children should not be reduced to statistics ... one of the 500?
Every CHILD is unique, special and precious.
It takes more grace and love to accept one who is less than perfect and not our own.