General Election 2015

Reply to General Election 2015 on Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:40:26 GMT

3Boys — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:40:26 GMT

pirate:
pirated:
[quote=\"pirate\"]
What's the point?
The point is the oppy not serious lor

Ok they may be serious to want to enter parliament but not serious in using objective data but try to smoke their way through the door

No. From what I see, you and the majority of Singaporean voters want every opposition candidate to be comparable to a PAP minister before you will consider them to be your MP. You want them to come up with totally novel solutions and suggestions where even the PAP have failed, but you do not want these solutions or suggestions to be radical or out of the box. To top it all off, you want a Cabinet sized team of them to be on permanent standby for free, and you are not willing to take any risk or make any trade-off for it.

There is no point in doing what 3Boys said. You will still not vote for them.[/quote]Just saw this.

You've declared yourself the spokesperson for the under-30s who would react with disdain to the G's handling of Amos Yee. And now you are the diviner of motives of pro-PAP voters, those unsophisticated sheep who don't know the difference between a mouse and a rooster.

I'd say you were ill-qualified to be either.

Reply to General Election 2015 on Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:33:39 GMT

jetsetter — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:33:39 GMT

pirate:

Even AGO also cannot sort out the previous year's balance handed to them, and you expect them to sort it out? Like I said, it demonstrates how easily hoodwinked voters really are. If those supporting schedules were ever in existence, the AGO would have been able to get it from the audit papers of the PAP TC's auditors.

You still don't get it or are in denial.

Cynthia Phua handed everything to them in 2011, no? Didn't SL check every single item and sign off? She did right? If supporting schedules were missing from that handover inventory, she should've alerted Cynthia Phua right away. But did she? It was her oversight, was it?

They said they were experienced in managing a town council at the Aljunied rally in May 2011 and assured voters, No worries! LTK has 20 yrs of solid town council experience. I heard it with my own ears. My DH and my relatives all heard it too!

When Hougang took over from PAP in 1991, LTK should know there should be a proper handover of audit papers and supporting schedules from the predecessors. But why when the AGO auditors started asking for them, they turned around to say PAP didn't hand over to them, huh? They are to be blamed to some extent too, right? :scratchhead:

As far as PAP is concerned, everything's been handed over to WP in 2011. Why wait until years later then point fingers at the predecessor for hogging them and causing the release of your own audit report to be delayed?
[quote]‘’We will do a proper handover,” (Cynthia Phua) said, a week after Polling Day. “We will ensure that all the existing contracts that we have are handed over to the new management properly.”

She even dismissed fears that the PAP may sabotage the incoming WP team.

“The PAP is not that way,” Ms Phua said then. “It has always been a fair and responsible party. We are direct and transparent in our actions.”

She promised:

“Have faith in us. It’s our responsibility to the residents of Aljunied GRC to ensure a smooth handover.”[/quote]
It was SL who hoodwinked voters, not PAP. You mustn't hoodwink yourself any further. 50% of Aljunied voters already woke up. You should too, pirate.

Reply to General Election 2015 on Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:33:13 GMT

pirated — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:33:13 GMT

Election over result is out. PSI still at 134. Why huh?

Reply to General Election 2015 on Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:22:02 GMT

sushi88 — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:22:02 GMT

jetsetter:
sushi88:
ST reported that a breakdown of votes by WP shared by WP party sources showed that SL and CSM lost their wards' votes and rode on the other 3 to win GRC. PS, who only answered to his residents, rightfully won wth a share of about 55%. Both Faisal and LTK won by >1000 votes.

Yeah, saw some comments flying around on FB. Do you have the link?

JS, no online version I think. This is found in the hardcopy of the GE2015 special edition that came with the main papers today.

Reply to General Election 2015 on Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:20:53 GMT

3Boys — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:20:53 GMT

pirate:
pirated:

Such an opportunity for WP to showcase the ineptitude of PAP, why didn't say so? Why never blast the PAP during the rallies for all these ? Sure win lots of votes to WP
As the GE results show, all one needs are the apparatus of the State, a cooperative MSM, a thick skin, and continuous repetition of soundbites in said MSM.

We just went around in one full circle. Apparently, recycling soundbites work too. Thank you for proving that. I am done with this.

Too bitter a pill to swallow pirate? You are sounding extraordinarily ungracious this fine day.

No matter, continue to behave like those fine echo chambers called TOC, Temasek Review , externalize the blame, refuse to reflect and take lessons, insult and abuse the other 70%, and in 5 years, prepare to rant and rave against the system again.

70% of voters have made the voices heard, Prof Daniel Goh has said it is an endorsement of the PM's leadership and PAP's policies.

And I agree.

Reply to General Election 2015 on Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:14:43 GMT

sushi88 — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:14:43 GMT

pirate:
sushi88:
[quote=\"pirate\"]
No. From what I see, you and the majority of Singaporean voters want every opposition candidate to be comparable to a PAP minister before you will consider them to be your MP. You want them to come up with totally novel solutions and suggestions where even the PAP have failed, but you do not want these solutions or suggestions to be radical or out of the box. To top it all off, you want a Cabinet sized team of them to be on permanent standby for free, and you are not willing to take any risk or make any trade-off for it.

There is no point in doing what 3Boys said. You will still not vote for them.
I thought your original initial stand was also to vote in opposition as voices in the parliament? No? I am a little surprised at your unhappiness of the outcome now.

I am just stating the hard truth. Singaporeans want voices in Parliament, but they are not willing to make any trade-off for it. They want the next constituency to do it for them.

Why do you say it sounds unhappy? The people have voted. Everybody should be happy. :rahrah:[/quote]You want everyone to vote for the opposition then that is considered trade-off? That is change of government. I think we should rejoice that the balance is kept well though some Aljunied residents are expressing unhappiness that they have to sacrifice their interest for national interest. I am grateful to Aljunied/Hougang residents for their strong hearts.

You sound unhappy...not it.

Reply to General Election 2015 on Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:07:08 GMT

3Boys — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:07:08 GMT

pirated:
pirate:

Even AGO also cannot sort out the previous year's balance handed to them, and you expect them to sort it out? Like I said, it demonstrates how easily hoodwinked voters really are. If those supporting schedules were ever in existence, the AGO would have been able to get it from the audit papers of the PAP TC's auditors.
Such an opportunity for WP to showcase the ineptitude of PAP, why didn't say so? Why never blast the PAP during the rallies for all these ? Sure win lots of votes to WP

Don't get sucked into this never ending discussion.

Reply to General Election 2015 on Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:06:47 GMT

jetsetter — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:06:47 GMT

pirate:
jetsetter:
http://www.straitstimes.com/politics/significant-reversal-for-wp-because-voters-cant-be-hoodwinked-shanmugam#xtor=CS1-10

Interesting comment.
Indeed. You actually expect humility from them?

On the contrary. The voters are easily hoodwinked.

All you need are the apparatus of the State, a cooperative MSM, a thick skin, and continuous repetition of soundbites in said MSM.

Punggol East proves all that.

SL is too arrogant, don't you think so? She wasn't like that in 2006.

Yes, agreed with you on WP's hoodwinking of voters part. But luckily, this time, only 30% Singaporeans comprising disgruntled blue collar workers and some vocal minority were affected by WP's evasive tactics. What a relief!

WP had over-leveraged media channels this GE. Or maybe they didn't. I think it was alternative media that did WP in. When vigilant alternative media and oppy IB excessively and incessantly generated WP's combative, defensive, evasive soundbites in lieu of PAP's rational clarifications, swing voters got pretty saturated! MSM has been rather objective, methinks.

Punggol East's loss wasn't due to MSM being manipulated by PAP. You have to remember it was the 'by-election effect' 2.5 years ago that compelled voters of PE to take the risk to try out LLL. They knew that by voting for LLL, they won't rock the boat, i.e. G was already formed.

2.5 yrs on, Punggol East voters are not certain if their action (by voting for LLL) would cost PAP to lose power in a General Election, not By-election, hence they exercised greater caution. 51% decided they had already tried out WP and probation period is up. It's time to return to PE to CC, their former MP two GEs ago.

PAP's strategy of holding a total of 6 rallies on the eve of Cooling-off Day paid off to some extent. Most of their rebuttals including CC's were deliberately scheduled for release on the eve, don't you know? This is so that MSM could cover them the same night or following day.

PAP cleverly leveraged on MSM which was the only authorised comms medium to publish political candidates' soundbites on Cooling-off Day. So for the last 24 hrs, voters including PE's were exposed to PAP's rational talk.

Since we are not PE residents, we mustn't judge their decision to vote LLL out. It's their will, so let's respect their will. Let's not use PE as e.g. \"proof\" whatsoever to accuse PAP for exploiting MSM and other state machinery.

So, did you attend any WP rallies in the end?

Reply to General Election 2015 on Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:54:51 GMT

sushi88 — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:54:51 GMT

pirate:
sushi88:
ST reported that a breakdown of votes by WP shared by WP party sources showed that SL and CSM lost their wards' votes and rode on the other 3 to win GRC. PS, who only answered to his residents, rightfully won wth a share of about 55%. Both Faisal and LTK won by >1000 votes.

I seem to recall not so long ago that somebody was commenting that Faisal was riding on coat-tails, and that PS was a liability.

I dunno who hor.....you should find that quote and quote it.

Since you now mentioned it under my quote, I give you a perspective.
For those not in Aljunied GRC, Faisal would be viewed as riding on coat-tails because to them looking at him having a seat in the parliament, he might not have done justice to the seat when viewed in parliamentary debate. However, he might have done perfectly well in his ward as their MP, hence the extra 1000+ votes.

Similarly for PS as a liability, he might have done a good job in his ward but at the national level, he has declared that he was only accountable to his residents, so probably that boosted his votes from the supporters but you can hardly expect people not from his ward to love him... Reasonable?

So I think this is a matter of perspective, from whose view and very importantly for WP is to recognise that when voted in as an opposition, they are representing Singaporeans' voices as much as the ward they are in charge of.

Just me 2 cents worth of analysis.

Reply to General Election 2015 on Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:51:09 GMT

outsider — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:51:09 GMT

I wonder what motivates lthe opposition candidates to join the opposition. I think they have a heart.

Reply to General Election 2015 on Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:38:37 GMT

pirate — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:38:37 GMT

sushi88:
pirate:
[quote=\"pirated\"]
The point is the oppy not serious lor

Ok they may be serious to want to enter parliament but not serious in using objective data but try to smoke their way through the door
No. From what I see, you and the majority of Singaporean voters want every opposition candidate to be comparable to a PAP minister before you will consider them to be your MP. You want them to come up with totally novel solutions and suggestions where even the PAP have failed, but you do not want these solutions or suggestions to be radical or out of the box. To top it all off, you want a Cabinet sized team of them to be on permanent standby for free, and you are not willing to take any risk or make any trade-off for it.

There is no point in doing what 3Boys said. You will still not vote for them.

I thought your original initial stand was also to vote in opposition as voices in the parliament? No? I am a little surprised at your unhappiness of the outcome now.[/quote]I am just stating the hard truth. Singaporeans want voices in Parliament, but they are not willing to make any trade-off for it. They want the next constituency to do it for them.

Why do you say it sounds unhappy? The people have voted. Everybody should be happy. :rahrah:

Reply to General Election 2015 on Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:30:57 GMT

sushi88 — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:30:57 GMT

pirate:
pirated:

The point is the oppy not serious lor

Ok they may be serious to want to enter parliament but not serious in using objective data but try to smoke their way through the door
No. From what I see, you and the majority of Singaporean voters want every opposition candidate to be comparable to a PAP minister before you will consider them to be your MP. You want them to come up with totally novel solutions and suggestions where even the PAP have failed, but you do not want these solutions or suggestions to be radical or out of the box. To top it all off, you want a Cabinet sized team of them to be on permanent standby for free, and you are not willing to take any risk or make any trade-off for it.

There is no point in doing what 3Boys said. You will still not vote for them.

I thought your original initial stand was also to vote in opposition as voices in the parliament? No? I am a little surprised at your unhappiness of the outcome now.

Reply to General Election 2015 on Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:26:41 GMT

pirate — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:26:41 GMT

pirated:
pirate:

Even AGO also cannot sort out the previous year's balance handed to them, and you expect them to sort it out? Like I said, it demonstrates how easily hoodwinked voters really are. If those supporting schedules were ever in existence, the AGO would have been able to get it from the audit papers of the PAP TC's auditors.
Such an opportunity for WP to showcase the ineptitude of PAP, why didn't say so? Why never blast the PAP during the rallies for all these ? Sure win lots of votes to WP

What's the point of doing so? As various people on this forum has already demonstrated, it is well and truly over their heads.

As the GE results show, all one needs are the apparatus of the State, a cooperative MSM, a thick skin, and continuous repetition of soundbites in said MSM.

We just went around in one full circle. Apparently, recycling soundbites work too. Thank you for proving that. I am done with this.

Reply to General Election 2015 on Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:25:26 GMT

jetsetter — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:25:26 GMT

sushi88:
ST reported that a breakdown of votes by WP shared by WP party sources showed that SL and CSM lost their wards' votes and rode on the other 3 to win GRC. PS, who only answered to his residents, rightfully won wth a share of about 55%. Both Faisal and LTK won by >1000 votes.

Yeah, saw some comments flying around on FB. Do you have the link?

I was wondering why CSM took the mic to speak first when WP did their concession speech (oops, should be victory speech!) this morning. So his Paya Lebar ward didn't do as well.

I'm not surprised SL lost to PAP in her ward. Her ward comprises mostly the pioneers, higher networth PMEs living in pte estates under LHH last GE. I've been saying these people were hurt when LHH didn't help them get rid of the foreign dorms at their backyard. But after GCT went to apologise and LBH and PM also dropped by, most of them might have swung to PAP.

I think SL should've said: \"I'm truly humbled by the dismal results. Sorry that we've not fulfilled your expectations. We promise to do better in the next 5 years.\"

SL needs to take some time to reflect too. She needs to playback all her past rally speeches (and LTK's too) and examine why her combative, accusatory style no longer goes down well with swing voters in Aljunied. Both LTK and SL were starting to sound like they are bullying PAP. I think I've attended enough to see the evolution of SL and the pattern of their rhetoric. Enough is enough.
[quote]我国的反对党也应该好好思考下来的路，一些小党有些迟迟才出竞选政纲，有的连政纲都没出，实在让人无法认真看待他们。

相比之下，工人党还是一个比较成熟的反对党，他们一直以来用的抗争与喊话方式在这次似乎不太奏效。我想一方面因为这个方式所能积累的人气基本已经到了头，另一方面因为他们对待其他反对党的强硬方式不被温和、理性的新加坡人接受。

但是，工人党毕竟还是一个相对更受欢迎的政党，他们能不能在这次的挫折后继续坚持，而不像过去一样每次选后流失一些人，是选民关心的。[/quote]http://www.zaobao.com.sg/zpolitics/opinion/story20150912-525991

Reply to General Election 2015 on Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:23:02 GMT

pirated — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:23:02 GMT

pirate:
pirated:
Is it AGO's responsibility to sort out the aljunied accounts ?

AGO was given the direction to investigate these audit qualifications, which relate to balances carried over from when PAP was in charge. That was why you had the AGO report. What could be reconciled by AGO had already been reconciled and are no longer part of the audit qualifications in subsequent years. What remains are those parts that even the AGO cannot reconcile. Why are you criticizing and making snide remarks about those audit qualifications when you don't even know what was in the AGO report?

Once more proving that voters are easily hoodwinked.

Yalor, hoodwinked till don't know how to throw it back to PAP? What's CSM and SL doing ? Check what ? Big time ipo lawyer can't do basic due diligence ? Sleeping !

Reply to General Election 2015 on Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:20:10 GMT

pirate — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:20:10 GMT

pirated:
Is it AGO's responsibility to sort out the aljunied accounts ?

AGO was given the direction to investigate these audit qualifications, which relate to balances carried over from when PAP was in charge. That was why you had the AGO report. What could be reconciled by AGO had already been reconciled and are no longer part of the audit qualifications in subsequent years. What remains are those parts that even the AGO cannot reconcile. Why are you criticizing and making snide remarks about those audit qualifications when you don't even know what was in the AGO report?

Once more proving that voters are easily hoodwinked.

Reply to General Election 2015 on Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:19:45 GMT

pirated — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:19:45 GMT

pirate:

Even AGO also cannot sort out the previous year's balance handed to them, and you expect them to sort it out? Like I said, it demonstrates how easily hoodwinked voters really are. If those supporting schedules were ever in existence, the AGO would have been able to get it from the audit papers of the PAP TC's auditors.

Such an opportunity for WP to showcase the ineptitude of PAP, why didn't say so? Why never blast the PAP during the rallies for all these ? Sure win lots of votes to WP

Reply to General Election 2015 on Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:14:11 GMT

pirated — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:14:11 GMT

Is it AGO’s responsibility to sort out the aljunied accounts ?

Reply to General Election 2015 on Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:13:02 GMT

pirate — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:13:02 GMT

pirated:
pirate:
[quote=\"jetsetter\"]http://www.straitstimes.com/politics/significant-reversal-for-wp-because-voters-cant-be-hoodwinked-shanmugam#xtor=CS1-10

Interesting comment.
Indeed. You actually expect humility from them?

On the contrary. The voters are easily hoodwinked. All you need are the apparatus of the State, a cooperative MSM, a thick skin, and continuous repetition of soundbites in said MSM. Punggol East proves all that.

Since WP does not answer in parliament only answer to their voters so they get less voters to answer to. Heng ah.

Four long years can't even sort out a TC accounts ? Don't hookwink us la...[/quote]Even AGO also cannot sort out the previous year's balance handed to them, and you expect them to sort it out? Like I said, it demonstrates how easily hoodwinked voters really are. If those supporting schedules were ever in existence, the AGO would have been able to get it from the audit papers of the PAP TC's auditors.

Reply to General Election 2015 on Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:09:09 GMT

pirate — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:09:09 GMT

sushi88:
ST reported that a breakdown of votes by WP shared by WP party sources showed that SL and CSM lost their wards' votes and rode on the other 3 to win GRC. PS, who only answered to his residents, rightfully won wth a share of about 55%. Both Faisal and LTK won by >1000 votes.

I seem to recall not so long ago that somebody was commenting that Faisal was riding on coat-tails, and that PS was a liability.

Reply to General Election 2015 on Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:08:18 GMT

pirated — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:08:18 GMT

pirate:
jetsetter:
http://www.straitstimes.com/politics/significant-reversal-for-wp-because-voters-cant-be-hoodwinked-shanmugam#xtor=CS1-10

Interesting comment.
Indeed. You actually expect humility from them?

On the contrary. The voters are easily hoodwinked. All you need are the apparatus of the State, a cooperative MSM, a thick skin, and continuous repetition of soundbites in said MSM. Punggol East proves all that.

Since WP does not answer in parliament only answer to their voters so they get less voters to answer to. Heng ah.

Four long years can't even sort out a TC accounts ? Don't hookwink us la...

Reply to General Election 2015 on Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:05:02 GMT

pirate — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:05:02 GMT

jetsetter:
http://www.straitstimes.com/politics/significant-reversal-for-wp-because-voters-cant-be-hoodwinked-shanmugam#xtor=CS1-10

Interesting comment.

Indeed. You actually expect humility from them?

On the contrary. The voters are easily hoodwinked. All you need are the apparatus of the State, a cooperative MSM, a thick skin, and continuous repetition of soundbites in said MSM. Punggol East proves all that.

Reply to General Election 2015 on Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:03:19 GMT

cool_hi — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:03:19 GMT

raysusan:
cool_hi:
[quote=\"hercules\"]4 couples, 8 of us, average age 52, min qualification among us a basic degree, all voted for WP and CSJ. Election results made us moody.

Our idea of democracy is for meaningful debates to be held in parliament, is for candidates to voice and fight for the best options (such as HDB, CPF, education issues, etc) for the people, and then a vote be done to implement the best or object the bad. Given that the PAP MPs are mostly the 'Yes Sir' people, we feel this is nowhere near democratic.
If only MPs of PAP can debate vigorously where necessary in the parliament without the fear of the party whip, that will be the day when we will vote for PAP. Otherwise, for the rest of our lives, our votes will forever be given to candidates whom we think can be those voices that are meaningfully missing in the parliament.

I just take & Maybe we are wrong afterall. Perhaps, One Party, One Nation, One Singapore, is indeed better for this country.
:goodpost:
Thanks, Hercules..
As I am not good with words,
Plus it's intimidating to post as a minority here(with no ga gi nang here),
It takes me a lot of courage to post,
Thus Am really glad that you spoke up for our group of people..
I know exactly how u feel..sigh...
As the opposition is weak in my area, mine was spoilt vote(so I am rational still),
as I also have to answer to my own conscience,
as I am not agreeable on the GRC system..

Oppies do not have a big group of top-notch analysts, economists,& whatever resources needed,
to help them in all areas..
I don't think they will ever meet the expectations of the majority..
Reasonable expectations or not?? I really don't know..

Anyway, by next election will be One Party, One Nation, One S'pore..
As PM, in a Chinese interview(I heard on radio), said they will do all they can,
to win back the last 2 :rahrah:

Thanks again:)
& I am done time to get back to reality & get on with life... :nailbite:

love the post...time to move on

in addition...i never support doubles standard and bully[/quote]Thanks, Raysusan!!! You made my day!!!
Ya bullies will NEVER admit they are Bullies!!
& double standard is indeed prevalent HERE!(!& even at school thread!!)
I merely stating what I heard only, kena questioned sarcastically, what I want PM to say..
I asked how JT going to handle if she is Transport Minister,
kena questioned I have any suggestion who should be Transport Minister
(as if I am the one getting million $ salary!!!)...
But other people with Ga Gi nangs say anything unreasonable,
eg .
look down on SAHM(with no million-$-pay hubby) saying they should not be SAHM if no tonnes of $$ in bank..NEVER kena \"shoot\"!!!
really double-standard!
in a forum, all ga gi nangs already gang up this way,
how to trust OWNSELF do SELF-CHECK???? in Parliament???!!..
Aiya..don't want to say too much..
say more, \"wrong\" more(wrong in their eyes...)..
sick of all these..

I just take it that their version of democracy is different from our version..
But kindly respect each other's version..
Anyway, Majority wins...
I have nothing to say....That's it....

Thanks, again!! Raysusan!!! :snuggles:

pirated:
Of course as PM can he say he does not want to win back the other two wards ? You expect him to say otherwise ?