sankan:

Wow. There has been a lot of discussion here since my last post.


People who are not suffering in the hands of the MAIDS can preach about maid liberty, treating them equally blah blah... And i mean it.. To see their sulken black face all the time, the number of stuffs that are broken spoiled around the house without even a sorry (and most of the time u come to know abt it accidentally they will never tell you) is more than suffering if you ask me

The contracts are always meant to be broken (By them, because if we break it they will cry blood and bring the roof down). do they ever do what they have agreed and signed in the contract. And when they break it, what can we poor employers do?? We can send them packing thats it.. But that also comes with a huge price.. Because each new maid costs us money and a lot more effort to train them..

And who said maids are responsible?? They are not like us and that is why they are maids... Maybe there are a few who are but u ask around, 9/10 people will say their maid is not responsible.. If u live in a condo, just go down to the playground and you will know what i am talking about.. My blood boils when i see the maids have their own kitty party in playground, with ear phones and happily yakking away and their ward is left on their own.. Whom all shld i shout at? And in most cases the employers dont mind.. They wont mind till all is well. The day the kids get hurt , then??
And my maid is like when they all can do it, why cant I?

During my gals last birthday, one gal came to the party with a maid. After it was over they went back also. After a while another friend of mine calls to tell me there is a gal sitting in the bus stop all alone, and I think i saw her in your party. I quickly go get the gal, called her mother and told her the story. The maid came after a while followed by the mother in tears.. You know wht happened? the maid went to the mini mart to buy some stuff leaving this 4 yr old some where outside.. What would you do? Sack her right? This mother lied to me that she had sacked the maid and later she told my common friend everybody does a mistake why make a big deal. She still has the maid but now ma'm refuses to even talk or smile.. What was my mistake? Told you about ur maids true colors? What if something had happened that day? This gal was found on the main road bus stop... I shudder at the taught even as i am typing it out..

Atleast in Singapore, Maids r the boss. They r never at the receiving end as some one said, we are.. Because every rule is favorable to them. The last thing u can do is treat them as slave.. They know their rights very very well.. And handphone is just icing in the cake...

Agree with you absolutely.

This handphone issue is creating a lot of problems for employers and we want to share and see how we can solve them and I can understand if it makes your blood boil when someone comes and tell you that you have no right to stop your maid from having a handphone.

Don’t think people are shying away when there are over 3700 views on this thread. They probably enjoy the exchanges and are seeing what the outcome is going to be


They have the opportunity to see how certain employers insist on pushing their beliefs onto others.

They can also relate and see how some rich and super rich employers send snide remarks to other employers who are not so rich

There are so many interesting tips to pick up and 3700 views certainly speaks a lot.

I agree that we can have different views and I have stated it many times but one should not make sweeping statements that cannot be substantiated.

Like many others who post here, they only relate what happened to themselves and they do not insist that other employers can do this or cannot do this.

The exchanges are simply exchanges and at the end of the day you can have you opinions but they must be based on facts.

The posters that I have engaged has placed other posts too. If those posts are factual and do not pass snide remarks on other posters, I will not engage them.

Thank you very much. I am sure you will agree that our discussion is easier for others to follow

nms1:

OK. Here goes.

1 Even when they agree in their contract not to have one? We do have to face the reality that they will have one? So what are you saying?

What I am saying is the reality is that many of them already have a hp or want one so what are we achieving by trying to ban it. Let's face the reality beforehand and figure out a way to keep both sides happy.

You are avoiding the issue again. When their contract say no hp you encouraging them to sneak one in because to you the reality is that they will have one? Should they not learn to honor what they sign. Go read a couple of posts before our discussion and one maid sneak in not one but two and you advocate such attitude?



2 You seem to have this notion that employers treat their maids as slaves? Why is that so?
I am not saying that all employers do but time & time again on this and other forums I see examples of what I regard as being inappropriate treatment. That is my opinion and others may not see it that way. I do not think they should be banned from having a hp or given no off-days. I do not like the cavalier way in which some employers send maids home. These are just examples.

You introduce the subject of \"slaves\" You are painting employers as employing them as slaves. This was actually unnecessary as we are discussing about maids hand phones. Now you are telling employers that they cannot ban the use of hand phones?

3 Because we do not have the right, they can do it anytime (e.g like the maid whom Lynn2010 saw?) and anywhere they like?

No, I am not saying that at all.Of course they shouldn't be doing that but just because some of them do it doesn't mean that we ban everyone. It's like trying to say that we ban all foreigners from driving because one lunatic in a Ferrari jumps a red light. We need to put it in perspective

Go and read your own post. \"We do not have the right to prevent them from communicating with the outside world.\" You are denying what you say? The maid that Lynn2010 stopped nearly cause the employer,s child to be maimed or killed. And the employer don't have the right to ban or stop the maid from using the hp? What kind of message are you sending? Even if you are pro maid I think this is irresponsible. Would you like it if it was your maid pushing the pram and Lynn was not there. Employers should have the right. It is the maid who will have to be responsible when given the privilege of using a hand phone. Lynn2010 is correct when she said it was an abuse of privilege. Why can't you see this? You are not being fair to the employer who has the kid in the pram by insisting that employers do not have the right. You should be preaching that maids should be more responsible when given privileges. You are barking up the wrong tree.

4 If that is condition of my employment I have a choice to accept it or not accept it. I walk away if I do not accept the conditions

Do you mean that you will accept that condition and then smuggled in your hp and then start clamoring that your boss treat you as a slave (your favorite word) and demand your right as you have been prevented from communicating with people? This is what you seem to be advocating?

Not at all. What I am saying is do they have a choice? If you bring in a maid usually the only things stipulated are the salary and maybe the off-days. Issues such as having hp, curfews, where they sleep, what they eat etc are decided once you meet them. If she doesn't like it, what can she do? Is she going to turn around and go home? Will the agent allow her to turn the employer down?

[color=#800000]Sure they have a choice. They know that they cannot have a phone so they don't take the job.They know about the conditions back home. You are encouraging the maid to flout the contract. Again you seem to be preaching such values and encouraging them?

For me, unless I am desperate for a job I will either negotiate terms, live with it or not take the job. I agree with you. But you are preaching the maid to do differently.

They don't have that choice.[/color]
Come, come they have a choice unless you do not give yours a choice. They are told back home when the employer provide the specs and they can turn down the jobs. Some have gone back after two years because they were not allowed handphone and then waited for employers who allow them handphones in the next contract. These are maids with integrity and should be admired.

5 You do seem to have a hangup that employers are treating their maids as slaves? This is the second time you are using it. Why is this so?

I think I explained this in point 2
You did and I thank you. But you kept harping on it twice that you do seem to have a hangup on this. And the subject of \"slaves\" did not even cone up in the discussion about maids giving problems to their employers. You created the confusion.

I understand that I probably come across as more pro-maid than some others but there are serious flaws in the system. Yes, as employers we have to meet their medical costs, worry about them falling pregnant or getting into other kinds of trouble but there are also many many maids out there who come over to earn a living leaving their families behind and are then not treated fairly. The majority of us here in Singapore are blessed and we are very lucky to even have the option to employer a maid. Sometimes we forget that.

I would advocate that employers treat their maids justly and fairly. I believe most of us do but there are a few black sheep who do not deserve to hire maids. But you seem to paint a larger number of them as employers of slaves. Handphones are a problem because they turn good maids into poor ones (Go read some of earlier posts) Most maids cannot managed the use of the phones and become addicted to them. Maids should learn to be more responsible.

When you champion the rights for maids you should ensure that rights come with responsibilities.

Our wish is that the maids learn to be responsible. Can they do what they have agreed to do in the first place? Can they do it the way employers want it done. Is that too much to ask?

This is a discussion and there is nothing personal.


Are we worlds apart? Yes

I stick to the issues and you make comments but run away when your comments need clarifications. You make sweeping statements and then do not substantiate them. That's how different we are.

We can have different viewpoints but you must substantiate yours. You cannot make sweeping statements and then run away

Can you please stick to the 5 issues that were raised in our previous discussion I have taken the trouble to number them for your easy reference so that you can reply but you have purposely dodge them

You have a hangup about employers treating their maids as slaves and now you refused to clarify what you mean.


You insist that employers have no rights and you run away from the issue.


You sounded very anti employer and pro maid which is fine but you must substantiate your stand

Can we get back to the 5 issues which are still outstanding you raised without creating new ones?

Let's stick to the facts and discuss the issues below. You can place your response under mine so that others can read and follow our impersonal discussion.

1 Even when they agree in their contract not to have one? We do have to face the reality that they will have one? So what are you saying?

2 You seem to have this notion that employers treat their maids as slaves? Why is that so?

3 Because we do not have the right, they can do it anytime (e.g like the maid whom Lynn2010 saw?) and anywhere they like?

4 If that is condition of my employment I have a choice to accept it or not accept it. I walk away if I do not accept the conditions

Do you mean that you will accept that condition and then smuggled in your hp and then start clamoring that your boss treat you as a slave (your favorite word) and demand your right as you have been prevented from communicating with people? This is what you seem to be advocating?

5 You do seem to have a hangup that employers are treating their maids as slaves? This is the second time you are using it. Why is this so?

We looking forward to you clarifications instead of you dodging them

Hard Truth:

nms1:

Why do we have to face the reality that they will all have one?

1 Even when they agree in their contract not to have one? We do have to face the reality that they will have one? So what are you saying?


They come here to work, not as slaves.

2 You seem to have this notion that employers treat their maids as slaves? Why is that so?


We do not have the right to prevent them from communicating with the outside world.
3 Because we do not have the right, they can do it anytime (e.g like the maid whom Lynn2010 saw?) and anywhere they like?


How would you like it if your boss said that you couldn't carry a hp and were not allowed to make any phone calls whatsoever (in or out) when you were at work, not even during your lunch breaks?

4 If that is condition of my employment I have a choice to accept it or not accept it. I walk away if I do not accept the conditions

Do you mean that you will accept that condition and then smuggled in your hp and then start clamoring that your boss treat you as a slave (your favorite word) and demand your right as you have been prevented from communicating with people? This is what you seem to be advocating?


Yes, some of them get into trouble when they have a hp and take days off but we can't treat them all like slaves because of a few black sheep.

5 You do seem to have a hangup that employers are treating their maids as slaves? This is the second time you are using it. Why is this so?

nms1:

Why do we have to face the reality that they will all have one?

1 Even when they agree in their contract not to have one? We do have to face the reality that they will have one? So what are you saying?


They come here to work, not as slaves.

2 You seem to have this notion that employers treat their maids as slaves? Why is that so?


We do not have the right to prevent them from communicating with the outside world.
3 Because we do not have the right, they can do it anytime (e.g like the maid whom Lynn2010 saw?) and anywhere they like?


How would you like it if your boss said that you couldn't carry a hp and were not allowed to make any phone calls whatsoever (in or out) when you were at work, not even during your lunch breaks?

4 If that is condition of my employment I have a choice to accept it or not accept it. I walk away if I do not accept the conditions

Do you mean that you will accept that condition and then smuggled in your hp and then start clamoring that your boss treat you as a slave (your favorite word) and demand your right as you have been prevented from communicating with people? This is what you seem to be advocating?


Yes, some of them get into trouble when they have a hp and take days off but we can't treat them all like slaves because of a few black sheep.

5 You do seem to have a hangup that employers are treating their maids as slaves? This is the second time you are using it. Why is this so?

Lynn2010:

Hard Truth:

[quote=\"Lynn2010\"]All my maids have hp. I can understand some maids really abuse the privilege. Once i scolded a maid (not mine) - i saw her chatting happily on the phone, pushing the pram, trying to cross the road but not concentrating. The car came, i screamed at her (I'm a pedestrian). She kept apologising to me. All this happen within the condominium compound. I told her if i ever see her on the phone and pushing the pram, i wont hesitate to complain to her madam.


You did the right thing. It was fortunate that you were around. Have you ever thought what would have happened if you were not around? If she continues doing that, the next person who complains to her madam isn't going to do any good because the pram would have been crushed and madam would have been crushed too.

But at the same time, i believe i should not deprive them from contacting the \"outside world\". Just like us, we may have problems, anger, frustrations, etc with our boss and we prefer to talk to our own friends.

Why do you feel that you are depriving them from contacting the \"outside world\"?

Difficult to be a good boss

Hi Hardtruth,

On why i think i deprive them from contacting \"outside world\"? I always put myself in their shoes. If i'm a maid, i hope to be able to confide in my friends not my boss.

Anyway, if they cross the line, i just sack them.[/quote]With the added information of \" Anyway, if they cross the line, i just sack them.\" I can now understand why you will allow them the opportunity to speak with their friends when they are frustrated or depressed at times. And I agree with it.

In my reading of your original reply when said \"you should not deprive them\" I read it as you are \"obliged or force to allow them\". I am glad to have asked you for clarification (BTW I will also sack them if they cross the line)

I have also posted some comments on some of the recent posts and was hoping for some response (like you did) but so far you are the only who was willing to go into a discussion.

The intention was not to criticize them but to seek clarification and understand why hand phones are creating problems for both maids and employers.

Next question for the discussion, How may people feel that the incident describe by Lynn2010 (the maid with the hp pushing the pram) have \"cross the line\"? (Hopefully it would not be just a Yes/No response but with a reason to explain why)

If it is all right with you, let's wait for others who are willing to participate to give some responses before you and I give ours.

Metis:

Aiyoh! Got conned by misleading header - so enthusiastic to read about fantastic maids Naughty!!

Aiyoh got conned by you. Thought that you were going to add another fantastic maid in this thread

My best wishes to you and I hope you have a happy ending to tell us later

Metis:

Hi Hard Truth, I had granted her requests for advance pay. :roll: Just went to seek advice from the agent. Agent said I shouldn't have advanced so much Told me to consult them next time if any such requests were raised again. The agent offered to counsel her. Agent was of view that if I was agreeable to home leave, already considered very good. 2 weeks really pushing it! I pay on the first of each month and had paid her for the month of July. Her trip home is supposed to be last two weeks of October. So I will be careful now and not advance any more in case she decides not to return! Yeah, it will be unpaid home leave.
Oh, just now she told me that her bro would be paying for the air tickets. I am really weary of her now - when she asked me for advance pay a few days ago, she had told me that her bro could not help pay their mother's debt due to wedding expenses, hence the burden fell to her. It is so weird to prioritise air tickets over settling of debts!!

hquek:

I am wondering if mine has hp (I don't go through her stuff) but will rather stay in the dark. If she is hiding it from me, she can't use it openly...so I rather have it status quo.


Hope you don't take this negatively. Some food for thought. If she has one and you would rather stay in the dark, she may figure that she is \"smarter\" than you and try some other stuff believing that she can always outsmart you. If using it \"openly\" means \"within your sight\", then you are happy that she goes to the bathroom (or some \"private\" places) to make her calls? Or you would not mind if you are out shopping with your friends, she can pull out her hidden phone and use it the whole time you are gone because it not \"within your sight\"?

I hope she does not have a hp then you will not have to worry about all these \"food for thought. But then you would rather not know

She doesn't have to leave the house much, but has a friend one floor down with whom she chats with from time to time standing in the yard.

It is good that you allow her from time to time to chat with her friend. When will this chatting becomes unacceptable to you?

Enjoyed your posting and sharing my experience with you as there were some similarities

verykiasu2010:

new maid first time in Singapore
Same for us

contract stated no handphone, acknowledged between maid agency and maid and employer on the day of arrival to employer house
Same for us

a few months later maid was found to have hp yakking away merrily and screaming at the top of her voice - one day when I came home at odd & unexpected hour to pick up some forgotten documents - i thought she was screaming murder in the house - she was actually having a hell of time chit-chatting with don't know who !!!!! my neighbors were thinking something wrong with the maid screaming at the top of her voice talking in hp ..... all the way we assumed she did not have as she has not requested for one and she agreed not to have one ......

First 3 months work was good and we got to like and trust her but it was all a great charade. First we heard voices in our home in the dead of the night. And these ghostly voices became bolder and we hear them in the day. Then we discovered that it was our maid with a handphone.

till this day I have no idea where the phone comes from, where the sim card come from, where she got the money to pay for the sim card .......
Ha! You did not asked how she did it did you? I have my nice little way of persuasion ( don't worry I did not use any of the torture that you see on movies) and she told us that she smuggled it in on her body the first day she came to work for us. Hope I may have solve the mystery for. Yours could be more creative or innovative
God knows what else she was up to. this is definitely my last maid. no more.