Chenonceau:

Intermezzo:

[quote=\"Chenonceau\"]
Hmmmm... yeah good point.... does anyone know if GEP teachers subject specialize? I am thinking that if GEP style has infiltrated mainstream, then if GEP teachers subject specialize, it may be a mechanism that is coherent with the new syllabus.

Anyone knows?

for ds who was in GEP, EMSL were always taught by different teachers throughout the 3 years leading to PSLE.

and teacher:students ratio was about 1:25

the interesting thing is, many of his classmates still went for tuition in 1 or more subjects.

You are a GEP Mommy. Ok... I understand now. I am not hitting out at you. I am not jealous of GEP parents. I think GEP benefits a certain population of students. I am glad that at least that part works as evidenced by the many enthousiastically supportive GEP parents.

Yet, allow me to humbly beg your understanding of our experiences in mainstream. Please.
[/quote]thanks for being understanding.
actually, i have another child who was in mainstream for primary school.

i can't remember the P4 bit, but in P5 they did have a specialized Maths teacher.
in P6, her FT took them in EMS. i have no problem with that. as Funz said, there're pros and cons. Time management among the 3 subjects might also be easier.

but throughout the years, there were still many of her classmates going for tuition after tuition, no matter what the teachers were like. for some it's 1:1 at home, for some it's at MindStretcher, etc. there were even a few who did all 3 - EMS at TTL, and MT somewhere else - i can't remember the reason now. isit becos TTL doesn't teach MT?

that's the main reason i feel that tuition has become an obsession - when many parents send the kids for tuition without considering whether they REALLY need it, or whether they have time to rest / play / do nothing / get creative / develop new hobbies, and most importantly, learn how to learn on their own.

Chenonceau:

Funz:

If you specialise in subjects, you move from class to class and level to level. You handle a lot more students. If you specialise in class, you cover EMS but you handle only that few classes (think at most only 2 classes looking at the timetable) and usually only that particular level.

Hmmmm... yeah good point.... does anyone know if GEP teachers subject specialize? I am thinking that if GEP style has infiltrated mainstream, then if GEP teachers subject specialize, it may be a mechanism that is coherent with the new syllabus.

Anyone knows?

for ds who was in GEP, EMSL were always taught by different teachers throughout the 3 years leading to PSLE.

and teacher:students ratio was about 1:25

the interesting thing is, many of his classmates still went for tuition in 1 or more subjects.

Chenonceau:

I am a bit disappointed that we have descended to vulgarity. And Intermezzo (this may stimulate another long emotive post from you which I won't know how to respond to), I had not expected that you would ride on the coat tails of vulgarity or someone else's fit of aggression. One can respect Becontented, Funz, Buds, Wonderm... who write and make sense... even if I don't always agree with them on every point.

kekeke sorry, it's just that i found it very cute that vks2010 can use 2 very different ways to say essentially the same thing, in 2 closely spaced posts...

yeah totally agree ~ i love the nice, balanced way BeContented, Funz, Buds, Wonderm, jtoh, etc writes too ~

verykiasu2010:

saying it is forced by the system or policy is total bullshit

don't tell me those schools / principals who manage to get individual teachers for each subject are running afoul of MOE policy ?

bullsh!t!

have enuf friends who are teachers / HOD / principals / master teacher / directors in MOE to say it is never a policy

and when vks2010 starts to substitute the i in important keywords with an exclamation mark, we can be pretty sure he means what he says.. :rotflmao:

BeContented:

verykiasu2010:

[quote=\"janet_lee88\"]Hubby and I held out for 5 years before giving son tuition for Math last year. He has CL tuition since P1. This year, we went ALL THE WAY...thank goodness we did bcos I don't have a good feel that school can prepare my son adequately for PSLE.

But Pei Hwa is well known for churning out grads with good PSLE results. That is why the school is popular.

I think you should post this post this same note at the Pri 1 registration thread, so that parents don't go there unnecessarily to register for Pri 1 next year.

Humans are generally full of contradiction :siam:[/quote]hi BeContented ~

when vks2010 says something with a perfectly straight face, one should always become higly suspicious, like this.. :skeptical:

jtoh:

Intermezzo, aren't you already in the group?

gee.. thanks! :snuggles:

cherryc:

How do you explain when kids go to tuition , they seem to get it??? So tutors can teach better and the kids are more engaged? And I am impressed with your \"they can easily learn on their own what they didn't get taught\". How do your kids do it? Mine can't as the textbooks scarcely cover the syllabus and if they can do it , they don't need to go to schools at all.

sorry.. i really can't say, because my kids dun go to tuition..
maybe it's a better idea to ask those who do?

i do believe kids can easily learn alot what they didn't get taught, as long as they have a positive attitude and love to learn.

we have all seen kids with the computer, with FB, with gameboys, iphones, etc etc. they do amazing things with all these which i am totally clueless about. i'm pretty sure nobody has to teach them how.

jtoh:

Intermezzo:

actually i very much wonder where would Jtoh fit in..? because i'm pretty sure she doesn't fall into any of these groups above...

I'll add in one more group to BeContented's original 3 groups:

Group 1 : kiasu and educated and know-how-to-teach parents
- will still be busy enriching their children.....cannot relax, must be on your toes, cannot be lazy/bochup, must do your best. With more time now, let's accelerate!!! Must make sure can cover everything.

Group 2 : bo-chup and clueless parents
- with no timeline (or at least much later) will be more relax. Since school result is good (no difficult paper), no need tuition lah. Also no idea how the child is doing in school or how prepared is the child for the BIG streaming at 16.

Group 3 : somewhat kiasu but may not know what to do parents
- will start wondering where their kids stand. How to find out? What if the child end up bottom at 16yo? How to make sure they get to good schools when time comes? Start hearing from grapevine the rich & smart are having enrichment, go for IQ test, able to get hold of good resources. Then start enrolling into enrichments to make sure their kids are not left behind.

Group 4: Interested but not overly kancheong parents
- Interested in what's going on but also accepts reality of kids' ability.

There are a number of Group 4 parents on the forum.

yay! i wan to join jtoh's group ~

Chenonceau:

Like I said, I am happy that people like Intermezzo and VKS2010 have been able to easily bridge the holes in the system that others cannot easily bridge. What I don't understand is why you would prevent parents in pain from seeking recourse by...
(1) blaming them
(2) making excuses for Teachers (they taught but your kid did not listen)
(3) making excuses for the system (they have constraints)

Believe me... when I write this post, I am quite as worried of getting slammed by people who write \"sian\" or by a raging bear. It's no fun to be doing what I am doing. Yet, there is a reality out there that I am seeing. In the long term, it is not good for our country. So I speak out. First, in private. Next, here. I am glad that there are others (independent of me) who also see that... and care enough to speak out.

Don't worry Chen, believe you me, i'm more scared of getting slammed by you then vice versa.. :rotflmao:

i dun have your quick reflexes, your skills in writing nor your wealth of examples to quote to your advantage. all i'm doing here is also to share and speak out from my pov. surely this thread is not only for parents who are unhappy about Education in singapore? surely a better picture of the whole situation can be made with views from both sides?

And if it comes to that, who really is the minority here who is likely to get slammed? you get pm after pm encouraging you to carry on. all i'm likely to get is hate mail.. :rotflmao:

i have already apologized for the use of the word 'sian' in the other thread. i used it THERE because that thread was not about Education in singapore per se. i would NEVER use that word in this thread, because everyone is entitled to sharing their experience on singapore's schools. but still, i have already admitted that i should not have used the word because it is bound to hurt your feelings.

(oso, i really dun understand why you should see my post as being directed at you. it is never directed at anyone here. Everything i write here is based on my general observations.)

so, to state my point, i did not commit any of the 3 \"accusations\" above.
if you'd read my post, i said,

[[[[[[[[ This is exactly what i feel is the case for most kids.

People like to talk and air our views, but really.. we are not so good when it comes to listening.
In fact, studies on listening skills indicate that typical adults only listen to between 30 to 50% of what is being said.

so how about the kids? can't be anywhere near 100%, right?

actually both my kids tried it on me before, saying that \"teacher didn't teach.. so dunno how to do..\"

i just tell them nicely, Maybe she did teach, but you weren't paying attention at that time?

and there's no way they could dispute that.. because they KNOW there IS no way they could have been paying 100% attention... ]]]]]]]]]

when i quoted vks2010, i even highlighted the part about the kids which i agree on. i didn't even mention the parents. vks2010 did, and he has the actual personal experience to back his statement up.

so actually, i'm giving BOTH sides the benefit of the doubt. and personally i would not spend any of my time finding out which part the teacher didn't teach or which part my kids didn't pay attention. sounds too tedious for words. if it's given in the schools' worksheets, test papers, exams, etc. and they dunno how to do, just go find out. period. or try to answer as well as they can. get wrong oso nebbermind. as long as they have applied their thinking process to the problem, they will be able to learn from their mistakes.

i dun expect my kids to know how to answer all the challenging questions in any exams. what i'm concerned about is that they love to learn new things and are not learning just for the sake of PSLE. As long as i know my kids have their own little caches of knowledge and skills and hobbies beyond the syllabus of PSLE which they acquired out of their own initiative and interest, i'm happy.

if your kids love to learn beyond the text books, then does it matter what the text books are like in the first place? if they are interested enough to pick up a wide range of different stuff beyond the text books & syllabus, then of cos they would \"naturally know\" most of the things tested; they don't even have to be bright. (ok, this is jmho.)

Eg. everyone knows the only way to be good at English is to read more books right? same thing in chinese - 多读课外书. do they only test vocab or phrases from English text books? do they only allow students to use what vocab/phrases are found in text books to write compositions? i doubt. to me, it's the same with every subject.

(hey.. actually i can also complain.. how come some kids take the initiative to learn so many things out of PSLE syllabus, and MOE nebber bother to test those things??? then actually the PSLE is not fair to them right?? it's only good for those muggers who know the syllabus inside out and go for tuition to perfect their exam skills, what?? ...ok now i really must siam oredi... guess i just like asking for trouble once in a while kekeke.... :rotflmao: )

ok, just to add, i have no doubt that some parents DO really have good reason to be unhappy with Education in singapore. i have no doubt you are an impartial observer to your kids' education, and that people like you, BeContented, cherryc.. etc put your kids in neighbourhood schools in good faith and came away disillusioned because your kids are not stretched to the best of their abilites.

but then there are also parents whose kids are in some of the most sought-after schools in singapore, some in GEP even, and still end up sending them for tuition after tuition. (which, incidentally, is what this thread is all about in the first place)

and then again, there is Lim Jeck, came from a Neighbourhood School, not even GEP background, no formal math olympiad training in primary school, but fuelled by his own interest and aspirations, has been aceing every MO he went for, and is now 2nd in the WORLD in last year's International Maths Olympiad.

Dun mean to offend anyone or directing this at ANYONE. After all, everyone should know best about their own case. I'm just sharing my own POV and trying to see things more from both sides.

verykiasu2010:

jtoh:

Group 1 and Group 3 parents will go for even more IQ tests and enrichment classes because if they wait until O levels and don't do well there, how? No PSLE certificate to fall back on!!! Only Kindergarten graduation photo!! Cannot!! How can their precious children's future be dependent on just the O level exams?? What if they don't do well??? Must go actively in search of some interim certification ala iPSLE exam. Then some clever iTLL centre will set up interim certification exams and all these parents will flock there. :faint:

then all parents and kids become Apple products : iDiot

actually i very much wonder where would Jtoh fit in..? because i'm pretty sure she doesn't fall into any of these groups above...