stetan:

limlim:

Since no one has seen the JD, just accept the status quo and stop crying for teachers to be paid extra for the \"additional work\". ..

Absolutely terrible train of reasoning. Why should one unilatereally accept the status quo when the status quo itself is being changed by the \"clean wage\" policy ?

limlim:

As mentioned before, description on the website gives an insight into what is to be expected. No where did I said that \"that\" is the JD. In the event of no formal JD, the website could be a good reference. That is what I'm saying...

Even the President's job has a JD. As I mentioned before, when you don't get access to a JD, it does not mean there is none. That's the fallacy of your argument

limlim:

They have to perform nursing when they are duty bound to do it. In times of war or disaster relief efforts, they are duty bound to carry out the task, including washing backsides if the situation warrants it, such as when someone is shot in the butt.During peace time and for no apparent reason, they are not duty bound to perform it if situation does not warrant it. If you cannot judge when situation warrants it, then perhaps you need to go thru NS(again?) to learn the obligations of a soldier.

Again, another failed reasoning. In times of war or disaster relief, even you , I and even the teachers may be called upon to wash backsides under such extreme situations.

What I am talking about is tasks that are done in the normal course of work, not under extreme scenerios. Do you see the army boys washing patient's backside in the hospital day in and out ? No, right ?

Thing is, Clean wage policy has nothing to do with JD of teachers. If you die die want to link them, it's up to you. I'm not interested to argue with you over this anymore. No point arguing over this. You said your piece, I said mine, end of story.

You talk about normal course of work yet you always quote extreme examples. In the normal course of work teachers has the discretion to decide if they need extra coaching. In the normal course of work soldiers do not wash backside, so why are you keep harping on it? Talk about something on a regular basis, then we can have a proper debate.

Actually, IMO, for aircon, more consideration should be given to the piping and workmanship as compared to the aircon brand.


Poor piping could damage the aircon, even if it is reputable brand. Even with same brand, sometimes you get good review from one person bad review from another, and the difference could actually be due to the different quality of work of the piping.

In this aspect, I would say Daikin does it right by setting up the proshops. As least, if you get from them, you can be assured that the quality of materials and workmanship is controlled by daikin. If you got recommendation for installers, not so bad, But if you buy from shops like courts or best denki, it’s difficult to tell what kind of contractors you end up with. So daikin is worth considering if you want more assurance of the piping works if you don’t know any good installers.

As for aircon brand recommendations, most say either ME or daikin is ok. Not much difference actually in quality.

Aircon is one of the highest energy guzzlers in a typical household, so maybe it is worthwhile to look at efficiency especially in hot Singapore. But it’s your choice.

One tip is make sure you get what you are promised for the materials and piping. Some installer use recycled parts to save cost. If they promise new materials, make sure they deliver the new insulation and copper pipes and setup them up in the house. If the pipes is delivered together with insulation, there’s a chance that those are recycled parts.

areyoustressed:

Its rather appalling how nobody responded for quite a while.......

Originally I wanted to start a discussion about the accident. Sadly the responses completely derailed the thread. Could have started a new thread for the other accident.

On many forums, most people's first reaction was that it was the student's negligence for failing to look in the direction of the red car. However, I feel the student is not entirely reckless as what many assumed.

From the video, it is apparent that the student was looking in the direction of the red car before crossing. The stationary vehicles must have obstructed the red car from her vision. (From the start of video, as she crosses, she was blocked by the taxi, implying that she isn't very tall and the car behind the taxi could have easily blocked her view). Hence, not seeing the red car approaching, she then did the logical thing to look to her left before crossing the other lanes.

While the reason for the cars stopping at the road is not known (red light? why then is the red car travelling so fast?), this accident did highlight that stationary vehicles parked at the roadside is a potential hazard near schools. It can obstruct student's view of the oncoming traffic.

Thus, the LTA or traffic police should step up enforcement around school gates to catch errant drivers who waited at the roadside along a road where waiting is not allowed, to prevent similar accidents from happening.

If the drivers were to pickup students, they should always get the students to wait for them, so that when they reach, they can just pick up and go, instead of waiting at the roadside and obstructing traffic and also posing as potential cause of accidents

Not enforcing the \"no waiting rule\" is just creating more opportunities for accidents to happen.


Of coz she could have stopped, and double checked before dashing across. But accidents are always due to wrong judgement or carelessness.

It's how one can minimize the chances of accidents by adhering to traffic rules that is important too.

Sun_2010:

:offtopic:


Intermission - Much ado about JD
Interesting - this discussion about JD and how colourful you guys make it. It is like watching my teen kids argue . All it good spirit. Just missed having some popcorn.

btw, hope you know what JD stands for -It's Just Do

Carry on

Well. You're right.

Just Do. Shouldn't have wasted so much time typing and explaining the situation. But the distorted sense of entitlement is amazing (want to use a facility, don't want to pay).. Sitting one side and laugh at it should be the correct approach.

stetan:

limlim:

You totally missed the point. I am not debating with you whether there is a JD. I am saying, If you have never seen the JD, how can you argue that any task given by MOE is not in the JD? .

You mean you have seen the JD that you are so sure that all these \"additional\" tasks are listed in the JD ? If not, you are the pot calling the kettle black.

limlim:

Since you keep on saying washing backside is a need, you can always volunteer your services at the old folks home. Surely a lot of them will appreciate you washing their backside..

No, you are the one that says what is listed on the websites are JD. Nursing is listed in the Army website as one of the responsibilities surely washing a patient's backside is definitely part of it ? You mean you are changing your mind, again?

.

Since no one has seen the JD, just accept the status quo and stop crying for teachers to be paid extra for the \"additional work\". If you want to campaign a change, onus is on you to provide the justification. that includes defining the JD.

As mentioned before, description on the website gives an insight into what is to be expected. No where did I said that \"that\" is the JD. In the event of no formal JD, the website could be a good reference. That is what I'm saying.

Again, you failed to read my post properly.

They have to perform nursing when they are duty bound to do it. In times of war or disaster relief efforts, they are duty bound to carry out the task, including washing backsides if the situation warrants it, such as when someone is shot in the butt.

During peace time and for no apparent reason, they are not duty bound to perform it if situation does not warrant it. If you cannot judge when situation warrants it, then perhaps you need to go thru NS(again?) to learn the obligations of a soldier.

Let's talk about the teacher giving extra coaching, which is 1 of the grouses that you bought up. In this case, the teacher will use their professional judgement to evaluate whether the situation warrants it.

You initially talk about extra coaching for students. Why keep shifting goal post?


The teachers assessed that they are duty bound to give extra coaching to the students, what is wrong?

stetan:

limlim:

If you have never seen the JD, how can you argue that any task given by MOE is not in the JD? If you have, why don't you share it?.

You mean a company or public institution will suka suka show your their own internal official JD just like that to any Tom, Dick or Lim ?. When you are not able to gain access to a JD, it does not mean there isn't any.

limlim:

The question boils down to reasonable \"need\". If a soldier is shot in the butt, there may arise a need for his buddy to wash his backside and the wound and nurse him in the battleground or send him to the nearest medical facility...

Are you saying when the \"need\" arise, I can also ask the army personal to clean my backside ? May not be a shot in the butt though.

How do you define \"need\" ? It is a very broad term that can be misused to incorporate many many things. That is why I say don't to so gullible to take what is available on the website as the official JD because those descriptions are worded so vaguely that it could include anything under the sun.

limlim:

As a professional, you would be able to assess what is reasonable and what is not.

As a professional, you should be able to assess what is right and what is not

You totally missed the point. I am not debating with you whether there is a JD. I am saying, If you have never seen the JD, how can you argue that any task given by MOE is not in the JD? Have you seen the JD? if not, all your argument about \"additional work\" has no basis. You are the one who bought this up.

Since you keep on saying washing backside is a need, you can always volunteer your services at the old folks home. Surely a lot of them will appreciate you washing their backside.

\"need\" as in duty bound to do it when assessed in a professional capacity.

There is nothing wrong with the wording. It's you who distort their meaning.

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__jco1Tf8aI][/youtube]

Zeit:

I suspect the infrastructure is so important to our national security that they cannot outsource the top job to an FT. First lady must be comfy to work with FT as well.

Wasn't Saw a m'sian when she lead smrt?

My info maybe wrong, but somehow I seems to have read somewhere that she was PR for like.. decades? Not sure whether she convert or not.. Anyone knows?

thsheng99:

We will see good teachers flocking to HCI and other independent/mission/ clan schools soon then

err.. your definition of good teachers are

1. Teachers that drive
2. Teachers that can afford car but unwilling to pay parking for car (in accordance with gov policy)

??