zac's mum\" post_id=\"2093480\" time=\"1672062815\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=2093480 time=1672062815 user_id=53606]
Qns to ask at CGS (and/or TKGS/TKSS?) open house: how many classes of NA will they be opening up? Will the existing teachers be tasked to teach the NA syllabus? Or will the school be hiring new teachers to do so? Will the number of Express classes be reduced accordingly to keep the same total intake? Or not? Class size and FSBB proportions per form class?

Qns to ask at MGS open house: how many classes of IB and Express? Class size? How many lateral transfers from Express to IB at the end of Sec 2? What are the precise criteria for lateral transfer? Do MGS Express students have priority over external applicants? What are the precise criteria for external applicants and how many succeed in entering in Year 3?[/quote]

:udawoman:

Great Post, as always. Thanks

00skyblue00\" post_id=\"2093453\" time=\"1672039778\" user_id=\"143605:

@Tatum

Let's make an apple to apple comparison? As close as possible.

If girl scored AL8, based on 2021 PSLE data, as ranges are not available for 2022 data.

Ranes of students in MGS vs CGS are:
AL4-AL17 vs AL5-AL11
total 6 classes vs total 8 classes

Which would parents choose? Is this your qn?

Has CGS been one your choices too? Clementi to Redhill is doable right?

To me, both are comparable, so it boils down to other factors such as enriched program such as STEM, travel distance/convenience, class size, CCA, etc.

Yes, CGS was one of the principal options as well.

Express only / COP of AL11 w/o affiliation discount. And lower school fees to boot.

Agree with your qualitative considerations above. Per @zac's mum comment, I agree that a concrete consideration for MGS is the opportunity to switch to IB track (not sure if MGS girls have priority over external candidates though).

phtthp\" post_id=\"2093435\" time=\"1672026549\" user_id=\"35251:

As mentioned before, your PSLE AL score doesn't define your kid.

Why?

Because

Everything will very reset from ground zero, once step into Sec 1.

Example

Let's say
the Cut off point Is AL 9, in a certain school. Because everything has been reset once start Sec 1, when come to end of Sec 2 or Sec 3, this child can end up ... Top of the cohort.

The reverse, can also be true.

Let's say,
another kid scored AL 4. That is because parents pump kid with lots of high end, expensive tuition teachers in PSLE.
But, if this child is ill disciplined, everyday come back home only play computer games, addicted to handphone, etc, this child can end up ... becoming bottom of the Secondary school cohort, at end of Sec 2, 3 or 4.

Yes, absolutely true - the 2 top scorers in my secondary school were bottom 10-20 percentile in terms of PSLE score, and both are doing well in the game of life now.

But generally, I try to play the percentages where I can, as it is hard to make decisions by exception. May win against the house once or twice, but longer term over many spins of the dice, harder to craft a consistently winning strategy that way.

So to play out the extremes, my kid may have 1 or 2 bad years and end up in a class of 18 to 20 pointers in sec 3 or 4 if I chose a good affiliated school. In SCSS or Nan Hua, it may be a class of 9 to 11 pointers. No guarantee the second scenario will lead to better O level outcomes than the former, but I somewhat prefer my odds there.

Happy to be corrected, as I have been wrong before, with my coldly numerical approach.

00skyblue00\" post_id=\"2093427\" time=\"1672022637\" user_id=\"143605:

Another point, affiliated JC may be quite helpful? Nanhua and SCSS have no affiliated JC. Tho it is not necessary if you have hcl.

Thank you for the considered post. Very valid points.

RV: Yes, that would probably be a top 1 to 2 choice if my kid scored 8 to 9M area. But may need to ballot if at 9M, so still need to think hard about #2 choice. And top affiliated school vs top O level school dilemma still comes into play (my kid's primary school has no affiliation discount btw).

Class designation: Does mitigate the concern to a degree, but 4 years is a long time and would not rule out my kid having 1 or 2 bad years, which may cause her to be assigned to a less ideal class down the road. In which case, concerns around median standards may come back to the fore.

JC affiliation : Need to have a think re JC affiliation. Good point.

Qualitative factors: Re the big fish, small pond and small fish, big pond, very important consideration but will defer to my wife and my kid on that. I just try to figure out the optimised options from a quantitative perspective.

zac's mum\" post_id=\"2093408\" time=\"1671983813\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=2093408 time=1671983813 user_id=53606]
The best thing to do is to visit the schools at the upcoming physical open houses (May and November) - very likely to all resume F2F on-site in 2023.

In your example above, students from MGS Pri may or may not want to jump to other schools even if they qualify. Sometimes “heart” factors are involved eg want to stick with their friends, or want all-girls school.[/quote]

Agree with the heart factors above, and the open house \"feel\".

Both points are subjective and intangible at the end of the day. Ideally, what I would like is outcome data, but that is not available.

I suppose another concrete data point is whether there is a normal stream. If there is, then school resources will need to be shared between the express and normal stream. So from that perspective, MGS and Nan Hua will be preferrable to SCSS and Fairfield.

Good to hear from more experienced parents on their decision criteria if they have considered between top affiliated school vs top O level schools (within COP 8 to 12 for non-affiliated kids), and whether the choice turned out positive or negative down the line.

SG_KP1\" post_id=\"2093399\" time=\"1671975096\" user_id=\"188234:

#2. As for the non-affiliated schools and what you see is what you get, I think this will be less of a factor going forward due to FSBB. For example, a non-affiliated school with a range of say 4/5/6 - 10/11/12 (not picking hard cutoffs as it may move a bit each year) vs. an affiliated school with i) affiliated 4/5/6 - 14/20 and ii) non-affiliated of 4/5/6 - 8/9/10, I think it is likely that the majority of the students in both cases are probably high single digits to low double digits. Both will have some of the high ranking kids that could have done something else but elected not to do so (for whatever reasons). The affiliated schools will have a longer tail that is accommodating a wider range of students. However, due to FSBB, the non-affiliated school is likely to have some SBB eligible (i.e. AL5 or better in the subject) mixed in as well. Hence, going forward I think the distinction here is getting a bit murky.

I agree with most of the points above.

Have struggled re the question of non-affiliated top O level school (ie Nan Hua, Swiss Cottage) vs an affiliated school like Fairfield (10 non-affiliated / 20 affiliated) or MGS (8/17). From my discussions with various parents, it would seem that most kids with scores of 10 to the affiliation COP will likely go back to the school based on the affiliation discount. The top primary school students, with scores of 4 to 9 points are most likely to go to other schools.

Take a school like MGS for example:
- 4-7 points - Negligible % expected to select MGS O levels
- 8 to 9 points - Some may stay but some may select other IP schools, or other top O level programmes
- 10 to 13 points - Most will stay in MGS O levels, some may select other schools due to lower fees or distance
- 14 to 17 points - I suspect almost all will stay in MGS O levels, if fees are not an issue

The above would imply that its not just a long tail (which is ok), but that both the median and mean scores would be significantly higher for schools with large affiliation discounts, compared to top O level schools like SCSS or Nan Hua.

To what degree does the strong alumni network + excellent school reputations/branding make up for the concerns around lower median/mean scores of the school population, I do not know. Have a few years to think this through before my next kid has to cross the bridge, but its quite a real concern, as it is a valid around the COP of 8 to 12 range.

00skyblue00\" post_id=\"2093371\" time=\"1671942566\" user_id=\"143605:

It is a hidden gem yes. I recall earlier there was a parent asking between SCSS and another top girls school, SCSS is only opp her home.

Personally, I think +- AL1 in COP does not translate directly to the standard of schools. A change of P, change of school policy, DSA intake etc Yes, not +- of 1 COP.

+ 1 COP could mean that there were kids/parents wanted to school so badly, they are willing to risk putting the school in 1st choice to try their luck. Depending on the actual Cut off segment, no change in COP could mean there was no other +1 COP putting in their high choices in that year. So we have to see the intake of the schools too, whether they are full house or reduced intake.

On affliation, some schools are miracle makers to have to handle a spectrum of kids with sparse ability level, must kuddos to them. They believe in giving every child a chance. There are merits in putting kids in such environment. Kids can grown in their own pace.

Do you have a child considering?? know anyone in the school now? How it operates? That may be more helpful.

Sadly, the current P is leaving and will be taken over by new P. It is a FSBB school now, and was one of the earlier pilot SBB. It has relatively long history and strong CCA records. Two CCA days per week. Ends school at 3pm. Some open info for consideration. Do attend the P talk. You will get more helpful info.

Good points. Thank you

phtthp\" post_id=\"2092819\" time=\"1671600302\" user_id=\"35251:

2022 PSLE Cut off point (born 2010)

O-level Express stream : 11

https://www.thewackyduo.com/2022/12/secondary-school-cut-off-point-2023.html

Based on the above website, SCSS is becoming the top dog in the West. For many years, it was neck and neck with Bukit Panjang Govt High in the area.

Now, it's COP is ahead of BPGH, Crescent Girls, and on par with Nan Hua as the #1 non-affiliated school.

That said, I do wonder how much value other parents attribute to the fact that a school is a top non-affiliated school. I always thought that was a strong plus point from a number of perspectives:
1. What-you-see-is-what-you-get i.e. if the COP is 11, there will not be any students with more that 11 points (aside from a small % of DSA kids). Unlike schools like ACS Barker, where will be kids at 21-22 points even though COP is 10 (or MGS at 17/8 respectively) etc
2. Less cliques from primary school

On the flip side, many of the affiliated schools have very strong alumni dynamics which could be beneficial down the road for the kids (once they break through the cliques issue).

Happy to hear from other parents as to whether this - top non-affiliated school - was a point of consideration for SCSS. Or what the other key reasons for selecting SCSS are.

00skyblue00\" post_id=\"2093265\" time=\"1671779948\" user_id=\"143605:

Can think of it as more are willing to risk putting these schools as 1st choice and got lucky.

Wow, 3500 difference!

Yes, data is in MOE statistics 2022, page 4. Link below.

https://www.moe.gov.sg/-/media/files/about-us/education-statistics-digest-2022.ashx?la=en&hash=144C2E30FEBE603D877AAD5A6B8078B754F806CA

SG_KP1\" post_id=\"2093202\" time=\"1671756035\" user_id=\"188234:

The only thing is next time around people may be more aggressive if they are AL(X+1) vs. prior year's COP of AL(X). I.e. there won't be as much of a void for things to move (caveat being the larger differential is still working the other way).

Anyways, the current S1 system definitely requires a bit more thought about how much you want something and what you are willing to risk (i.e. your next choice and ballot priority). I've always thought it was a good idea to scout out a range of schools before one gets the result slip. It is easier to evaluate all of the factors absent the emotion of the actual performance (positive or negative). I.e. have a plan about what one wants to do if he/she scores great, as expected, or unfortunately not as well as hoped ahead of time.

Ya agree. All quite new to the system.

Parents' bidding strategies will shift, and schools may adjust intake numbers in low birth years as well like GMSS. Though am not sure if intake numbers are determined by schools or MOE (because presumably intake number affect grants/funding, and I don't think school infrastructure or staffing changes from year to year). Will be good if MOE / school insiders can chip in if they know.

Have to monitor how the COP numbers move next year (+1k students) and the year after (+3k students) to test the hypothesis. May see a broad tightening of COP numbers in 2024.