Learning Chinese (Primary/Preschool)
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SoWoW:
Hi SoWoW,
Tamarind, I am keen to get this 1000 best essays book, not sure if you can help to get this book for me in your next purchase. thanks alot.tamarind:
For your information, it is very easy to order books from China through dangdang.com which has a huge collection of good books.
I found this book of 1000 best essays :
http://product.dangdang.com/product.aspx?product_id=20383611
It can be shipped to Singapore for a shipping charge of about ￥18.
I will not be ordering from dangdang within the next few months. You can try asking other parents in this thread.
http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14081&start=460
Do take note of what I wrote earlier before you decide to buy these books :
An educational expert in China, author of the best selling \"Hao mama sheng guo hao lao shi\" (A good mother is better than a good teacher) book, wrote that the quality of these so-called model compositions are actually quite poor. She wrote that the publishers allowed parents to send in money to have their kids' compositions published in the books. The compositions do not have interesting vocabulary or good content, and it is pointless to read them.
The author also wrote that reading model compositions alone is not sufficient, because there are not many words in these compositions. In order for kids to do very well, they should be reading many long novels of hundreds of thousands of words.
The author raised a daughter who is brilliant in her academic studies. She attributed her daughter's success to reading large numbers of interesting Chinese novels.
Note that forcing a child to memorize model compositions is one of the worst ways of teaching Chinese, and it is very likely to make a child hate Chinese. The reason why so many kids hate Chinese nowadays, is because they are forced by their parents to memorize compositions. It is so much better to let the child read good novels like the 笑猫日记 series of books which is far superior to any model compositions, and so much more meaningful and fun to read. -
tamarind:
Hi SoWoW,
Tamarind, I am keen to get this 1000 best essays book, not sure if you can help to get this book for me in your next purchase. thanks alot.SoWoW:
[quote=\"tamarind\"]
For your information, it is very easy to order books from China through dangdang.com which has a huge collection of good books.
I found this book of 1000 best essays :
http://product.dangdang.com/product.aspx?product_id=20383611
It can be shipped to Singapore for a shipping charge of about ￥18.
I will not be ordering from dangdang within the next few months. You can try asking other parents in this thread.
http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14081&start=460
Do take note of what I wrote earlier before you decide to buy these books :
An educational expert in China, author of the best selling \"Hao mama sheng guo hao lao shi\" (A good mother is better than a good teacher) book, wrote that the quality of these so-called model compositions are actually quite poor. She wrote that the publishers allowed parents to send in money to have their kids' compositions published in the books. The compositions do not have interesting vocabulary or good content, and it is pointless to read them.
The author also wrote that reading model compositions alone is not sufficient, because there are not many words in these compositions. In order for kids to do very well, they should be reading many long novels of hundreds of thousands of words.
The author raised a daughter who is brilliant in her academic studies. She attributed her daughter's success to reading large numbers of interesting Chinese novels.
Note that forcing a child to memorize model compositions is one of the worst ways of teaching Chinese, and it is very likely to make a child hate Chinese. The reason why so many kids hate Chinese nowadays, is because they are forced by their parents to memorize compositions. It is so much better to let the child read good novels like the 笑猫日记 series of books which is far superior to any model compositions, and so much more meaningful and fun to read.[/quote]Even though I have obtained the results that I wanted for my son (i.e., compo marks went up from 8/20 to 16/20 - without wholesale regurgitation and depending only upon recall of good phrases), I would tend to agree with Tamarind that reading for fun is VASTLY better.
Reading for fun is less likely to backfire on you.
The method that I have used can really backfire if you don't manage the process well. However, if you do manage the process well, then your child may (like mine) stop hating it... but in order to get my son to really like Chinese, I stiill need to transit him from compo memorizing to reading for fun.
The jump from P4 to P5 is stupendous. I observe that P5 papers are set at about 90% of the PSLE prelim standards. I have no time and my child is far behind... we don't speak ANY Chinese at home. I needed a fast and radical solution. But I am also able to manage the process well. Please note that the way you manage this process and make the difference between
(1) success (your child develops competence and some liking)
(2) failure (your child hates you and the language)
If you have time and you speak Chinese at home... then go the route of reading for fun. It is preferable. Another Mommy uses cheng-yu games with her P5. If you can speak and write Chinese, you can do that too. -
For those parents who do not know Chinese, I strongly advise you to send your kids to well established Chinese enrichment classes like Berries and Tien Hsia to learn from the experts.
The following are results for the students attending Berries :
93.9% scored A & A* in 2010 PSLE Chinese
83.6% got merit/dist. for higher Chinese
The experts know what is the best way to teach Chinese.
I do not have parents who speak mandarin at home, and they cannot help me with Chinese, but I managed to do very well in Chinese all the way to A levels without any tuition or enrichment classes, and I never have to memorize anything : http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/content/learning-chinese-independently
For those parents who know Chinese, there is no need to spend a lot of time teaching your child to read at home. I am a full time working mommy who can only afford to spend half an hour teaching each child everyday, and the results have been amazing. -
tamarind:
Hmmm... I may be wrong but it seems that 80% of cohort scores A. However, this does not mean that their PSLE t-score will be high. And it is the t-score that determines entrance into schools. Not the number of A's.For those parents who do not know Chinese, I strongly advise you to send your kids to well established Chinese enrichment classes like Berries and Tien Hsia to learn from the experts.
The following are results for the students attending Berries :
93.9% scored A & A* in 2010 PSLE Chinese
83.6% got merit/dist. for higher Chinesetamarind:
I tried experts when The Daughter was young... established experts with years of experience having taught in MOE, and from China too. Didn't work. The Daughter scored between D to F from Sec 1 to Sec 4. In the end, at the end of her tether, she buckled down to memorizing compos and cheng yu... and got an A1 for AO level Chinese.The experts know what is the best way to teach Chinese.
BUT she hates the language. She absolutely DETESTS it.tamarind:
The PSLE today is far more difficult than what we went through. The past may not predict the future.I do not have parents who speak mandarin at home, and they cannot help me with Chinese, but I managed to do very well in Chinese all the way to A levels.
tamarind:
Notwithstanding that the essays may have been paid for by parents for publication... they are still better than model compositions published in Singapore. So, for those who want manageable and short 800 character pieces from start to finish, these collections are a viable alternative. But I will make sure to check out 笑猫日记.If you must make your child memorize something, it is far better to let him memorize the 笑猫日记 series of books since these books are far superior to model compositions which are paid by parents to be published.
Thanks much much. -
Writing good compositions require good techniques, not simply memorizing compositions. I have a few series of books from dangdang that are excellent for teaching good writing techniques like 大鼻子李教授新体验作文. Any parents who are interested can PM me for more information.
Note that according to an education expert in China, the model compositions do not have interesting vocabulary or good content, and it is pointless to read them. I think it is a complete waste of time to memorize them. The precious time should be spent on reading many good and meaningful story books, written by well established authors. Learning Chinese can be very enjoyable, and it can translate to very good exam results.
I do not advise parents to use private tutors, even if a tutor claims to have many years of teaching experience, she may not know what is the most effective methods of teaching. I have heard of many parents who spend a lot of money on private tutors, and their kids still do badly in Chinese.
Well established enrichment classes like Berries have been around for many years, they have large number of students and their methods are tried and tested. I have not heard of any student who studied at Berries and hate Chinese. I heard that the PSLE top scholar last year attended Han Language Center.
I know of adults, younger than me, who did higher Chinese in school, but could not read signs in Chinese when working in China. In comparison, I have been reading long Chinese novels for many years after I stopped learning Chinese in school. I believe that the way I learned Chinese has a much better effect compared to those who learned Chinese just for the purpose of getting As in exams.
I suspect that the standards of Chinese in school now is much lower than years ago. I heard of a mainland Chinese parent whose daughter is studying in RGPS here, said that our higher Chinese at P5 is only equivalent to P2 level in China :
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_w1nyHWTEh94/S-DQf3s0W2I/AAAAAAAABqE/RwDSeQqLesA/s1600/chinese.jpg -
tamarind:
The textbooks do not reflect the level of Chinese required to score in the top percentile of the PSLE. This is true of all the subjects. The textbooks do not set the standard for exams. The PSLE is a discriminating exam. It is meant to discriminate and sort students into ability bands so that they can be popped into the relevant schools in secondary. The standard of Chinese compo writing is thus anchored by the best PRC students' work in that exam.I suspect that the standards of Chinese in school now is much lower than years ago. I heard of a mainland Chinese parent whose daughter is studying in RGPS here, said that our higher Chinese at P5 is only equivalent to P2 level in China :
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_w1nyHWTEh94/S-DQf3s0W2I/AAAAAAAABqE/RwDSeQqLesA/s1600/chinese.jpg
This was actually shared by a school principal. \"Standards in Chinese have gone UP\" he said \"because of the PRC students\". To do well, and get a good t-score overall (disregard As and A*, they don't mean much), you gotta be better than the PRC students who take the PSLE in the same year as you so that you rank higher than they do in the percentile chart. Hence, if the PRC students are 3 years ABOVE the level of the Singaporean students, then to do well in their PSLE t-scores, the Singaporeans need to match that standard.
We don't have lower standards, in reality. Our textbooks have not kept up... is all.
I took my son's latest compo, scored at 16/20. Not even full marks. It is already at a higher level than the textbook chapter. I just went and asked my husband about 笑猫日记 because I can't read Chinese. It turns out we have those books. They are an easy read for my son and he reads them for pleasure before bed. The texts that I ask him to memorize in P5 correspond to Sec 2 or 3 Singaporean Chinese textbooks (3 to 4 years higher). I reckon your PRC friend is right in that there is a gap of 3 years. However, the PSLE being what it is, even if the Singaporean textbook is P2 PRC level, what our Singaporean kids need to learn is still P5 PRC level (corresponding to Singaporean textbooks Sec 2 and 3 levels). Only then, can he hope to get a good t-score in PSLE Chinese.tamarind:
I find quite odd the notion that anything is life is completely this or completely that. When life is simple in childhood, issues have straightforward answers and have clear right and wrong answers. As an adult, we are faced everyday and in every situation with complex situations where everything is nuanced.Note that according to an education expert in China, the model compositions do not have interesting vocabulary or good content, and it is pointless to read them. I think it is a complete waste of time to memorize them.
You are no doubt right that compo memorizing is not the best method to learn Chinese (a nuanced response) but to say it is a complete waste of time is a statement that is too easily disproven. And disproven even once, it fails the test of truth.... never mind what one believes. What matters is what works. The moment someone can find even ONE example of a high scoring compo passed up to teacher for marking, that scored well PRECISELY BECAUSE of those phrases from the compos you consider a waste of time, the notion that it is a complete waste of time fails the test of truth.
My son AND daughter score A s thanks to compo memorizing. The little lady in my son's class who scored full marks for Chinese Compo last year also memorized the compos in that series. Indeed, when marking his Chinese compo, DS' Chinese teacher specifically highlighted some good phrases when she read it out to the class and they were those he had learnt from the 1000 compo collection.
Hence, there is at least some evidence to suggest that it isn't a complete waste of time to memorize compos that an unnamed educational expert from China has assessed to be poor in content and lacking in interesting vocab.
Experts can be wrong too. I'm supposed to be an expert in my job... but I KNOW I can be wrong too. Conversely, I am far from an expert in teaching Chinese... gee... I don't even read the language... but I can't help but think that the method cannot be COMPLETELY WRONG because it does produce good grades, even if it is a horrible method.
Lastly, I am guessing that since you suggested that P5 students memorize 笑猫日记 instead of compos from the 1000 compo compendium, you may have thought that both were of equivalent level. If so, it would indicate that you have not actually yourself browsed the 1000 compo compendium. Else you would realize that they are not of the same standard of difficulty at all. Hence, have you concluded that the book is a complete waste of time based merely on what an unnamed expert said? I don't know... I only make a logical guess.
However, IF it is true that you have not actually browsed the 1000 compo compendium then how come you are so sure that it is a complete waste of time and pointless? Because an unnamed expert said so? If the expert is wrong, then so will we be, no?
I would advise that parents pick up the various options suggested in this forum and make an informed assessment. Employ the faculty of critical and nuanced thinking. As parents, we owe it to our kids to do enough due diligence. Cannot just follow expert advice in blind faith without even browsing the book. -
[quote]
Experts can be wrong too. I'm supposed to be an expert in my job... but I KNOW I can be wrong too. Conversely, I am far from an expert in teaching Chinese... gee... I don't even read the language... but I can't help but think that the method cannot be COMPLETELY WRONG because it does produce good grades, even if it is a horrible method. [/quote]I find it even more strange that someone who cannot even read anything in Chinese, can write such so much about how to learn Chinese.
I do hope that that other parents reading whatever you wrote have some common sense.
Anyway, I am not exactly suggesting that students memorize 笑猫日记. You have completely misunderstood my point, again, due to your lack of knowledge of Chinese. Since you cannot even read the 笑猫日记 series of books yourself, it is difficult for you to understand why I recommend that kids read those books rather than memorizing excruciatingly boring model compositions.
The education expert that I talked about is 尹建莉, the author of the best selling \"Hao ma ma sheng guo hao lao shi\" book in China. She is writing based on her real life experience of raising her own daughter :
http://read.dangdang.com/book_1742
Anyway, I do not wish to argue about this anymore. My wish is only for parents to understand the correct methods of teaching Chinese, and that learning Chinese can be very enjoyable. In order to do well in a language, it is most important to develop a love for the language, and this cannot be done by forcing the kids to memorize boring essays. I love Chinese, and I feel sad when kids complain that they hate Chinese, all because parents are using the wrong methods. -
tamarind:
Ah yes... you are right. I don't know Chinese. That is fact indeed.
I find it even more strange that someone who cannot even read anything in Chinese, can write such so much about how to learn Chinese. -
Good luck to you, and I do hope that your kids get good grades in Chinese, whatever methods that you choose to use.
However, my wish is really for all Singaporean kids to grow up as adults who are proficient in Chinese, unlike some people who totally forget about how to read or write Chinese years after they stop taking exams. -
tamarind:
Your passion is admirable, and thank you.Good luck to you, and I do hope that your kids get good grades in Chinese, whatever methods that you choose to use.
However, my wish is really for all Singaporean kids to grow up as adults who are proficient in Chinese, unlike some people who totally forget about how to read or write Chinese years after they stop taking exams.
I am puzzled though... did I misunderstand you?tamarind:
Did you not write the above? It doesn't square with the below... eh?If you must make your child memorize something, it is far better to let him memorize the 笑猫日记 series of books since these books are far superior to model compositions which are paid by parents to be published.
tamarind:
Anyway, I am not exactly suggesting that students memorize 笑猫日记. You have completely misunderstood my point, again, due to your lack of knowledge of Chinese. Since you cannot even read the 笑猫日记 series of books yourself, it is difficult for you to understand why I recommend that kids read those books rather than memorizing excruciatingly boring model compositions.
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