Newspaper Article: Sorry, your child is not bright enough

[corneyAmber]

looking4Tutor:

ksi:

I don't think so, it would be a silly & illogical move for MOE to do this as they encourage parents to put their children into schools based on proximity. If they do that, a whole neighbourhood of children are destined to go NA or NT or ITE because they stay in that area? :scratchhead:

Till now I cannot believe that there is less than 20 students in the whole cohort of my ds primary school that scored above 250.
My town consists of so many ...... children ah!

Are you talking about the 2011 PSLE?
I overheard a dialogue saying they were surprised a certain school had an all-time low of 250+ students for PSLE 2011....
is this a one-time occurrence for your school or yearly thingy?

[Ichigokun]

MWAHAGAHAHAHA. Glad to have passed my Learning Point Entry Test when I was P6

[looking4Tutor]

ksi:

Are you talking about the 2011 PSLE?

I overheard a dialogue saying they were surprised a certain school had an all-time low of 250+ students for PSLE 2011....
is this a one-time occurrence for your school or yearly thingy?

yes 2011 and yes yearly thingy. I was thinking to myself that if this whole cohort was to be taught in the so-called top primary schools will it have a different result.

[corneyAmber]

looking4Tutor:

ksi:

Are you talking about the 2011 PSLE?

I overheard a dialogue saying they were surprised a certain school had an all-time low of 250+ students for PSLE 2011....
is this a one-time occurrence for your school or yearly thingy?

yes 2011 and yes yearly thingy. I was thinking to myself that if this whole cohort was to be taught in the so-called top primary schools will it have a different result.

Now I am curious...what is the typical cohort size?

[coast]

ksi:

coast:

Thanks! :oops: My DS is very active in sports and I think unlike academics where one can always score well in a subject (and hence not facing any setback) ... there are more ups and downs in sports competition ... I try to use it to impart certain values to him .. I was shocked when he told me last year that some of his P1 classmates would \"boo\" when others score full marks ... I told him one should feel happy for all who did well and for those who didn't ... it is like losing a match and they can always look forward to the next one to do better.

I totally agree that studies should be looked upon with the sporting spirit. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't but you do know that if you put in extra effort, it will show in the results. And when others win, rejoice with them that they have done something right. However, I find that this important sporting spirit is hardly inculcated in the children today in general, whether in school or at home. So only parents who understand sports can do this effectively with their children. Generally, I find the kind of competitiveness today is a killer instinct one and sometimes it is promoted by the adults knowingly or unknowingly, it is so unfortunate because it gets into the way of forging lovely friendships. Gone are the days where strong friendships are forged at the primary level.....it probably has to start at the toddler level now where innocence I hope still prevails.

:goodpost:

Yes, my ds school does not even let children choose the sports they like. They have to be screened for their aptitude (very limited vacancies), even at P1!

Parents (and of course teachers) can help to forge strong friendships. My P2 DS is still keeping in touch with his kindergarten friends. For his current classmates, there were a few outings during the school holidays too. But knowing that they will split into different classes a few times down the road mean most of them do not have the 6 year bonding in the same class.

While it is good to teach our children to work hard, we have to understand that results are dependent on various factors, some of which are beyond our control Some students or parents also take \"extra efforts\" to extreme and the poor kids spend hours and hours on study, neglecting a balanced life. But I know you don't mean that Just want to point it out in case other parents read it and use it to \"inspire\" their kids to put in even more hours on their studies

[coast]

ksi:

coast:

[quote=\"Chenonceau\"]Oh dear... my son was spending all day trying to amuse himself feeding spaghetti to ants pre-P1. Maybe that's why he did so badly from P1 to P3!!

:rotflmao:

Apart from the weekly spelling and ting-xie in K2 ... which my DS spent less than 10 mins in total each week ... it's pure childhood fun for him!

Even in P1 ... after school ... it's mainly non-academic stuffs that he enjoys doing. I have parents giving me the doubtful look \"where does he find time to study?\" as they know that he does this and that fun stuffs after school

You are probably on the right track for a better childhood for your child.
Likewise my child had no tingxie and spelling in the kindy...these only started in P1 for her and it was manageable.[/quote]Thanks :oops: You are right to use \"probably\". Every child is unique. These are the 3 things that matter most to me for my DS: Good Health, Happy, Good Character. He is doing very well so far but as parents, we have to keep learning and adjust our parenting style especially in this global world and fast-changing society. I suppose things will work out well when there is a strong parent-child bond

[coast]

try:

ksi:

[quote=\"try\"]

MOE does not provide adequate material if they are setting exams which are much harder than what are in textbooks. Just look at the textbooks, ask our children, how many children P4 level and above can score above 70 just by using the textbook and materials from school(excluding top school exam papers)?

Many schools are also streaming the children - some at P2, while others at P3. But the problem with this kind of streaming is that it is not subject specific so it defeats the purpose because teachers cannot provide harder material because some children may be very good in Math but very poor in English(but still manage to get into the top class).

Materials from Learning Lab can be easily set by curriculum specialists in MOE HQ. I have borrowed them from friends to see what the hoo-ha is about so I can attest to the fact that it is something do-able by curriculum specialists or specific HODs/teachers who are given dedicated time to create the material.

Frankly, if MOE HQ is not giving the right support and direction to schools, the outcome is monetary gain for enrichment centres as enrichment centres who are started mostly by ex-school teachers know how to plug this gap.

To be fair, I find that MOE/SEAB sets questions that ARE COVERED conceptually in the classroom. The difference is the questions may not be seen before in any 10-years PSLE series but that is rightfully so if we want to see new emerging little scholars to place them in the right schools. If MOE tests something not within concept, I would have an issue as that is out of context. Just like they can put a big \"X\" in compo for out of point, we can put a big \"X\" to them for out of syllabus concepts too. The thing is this is not the case. I remember 2-3 years back after the difficult PSLE Math paper, there was an interview with some P6 kids. When asked how he found the paper, one boy replied, \"it was diffcult.\" Then when asked, \"were the types of questions set something not taught in class?\" His reply, \"No, the concepts were covered by the teacher but that type of questions, I have not seen them before.\" So you see , we cannot fault MOE for setting questions children have not seen before. If every question is seen before, then it is a test of memory skills. It is fair for MOE to test application skills and truly fair if it is limited only to some questions, not the entire paper, otherwise it would be a tiring paper to do for the majority. THAT, I am against too....because the stamina to complete an exam paper is crucial, no point damaging a child's energy to press on in a major exam with unreasonable number of tough thinking questions. This, I believe, is something SEAB can ensure if they vet their papers thoroughly after setters have set them.

I should have phrased \" MOE does not provide adequate material if SCHOOLS are setting exams which are much harder than what are in textbooks.\"

I agree with ksi that \"MOE/SEAB sets questions that ARE COVERED conceptually in the classroom\". But more and more schools are setting school exam papers which are of the top ten primary school standard. Many schools are using these top ten school papers as preparation(mock papers) for PSLE preparation on top of past PSLE papers which is understandable as all PSLE students are competing against their own cohort.[/quote]Hi ksi and try, thanks for sharing

When Chenonceau and other parents shared their personal experience in KSP that their children fared poorly in some tests because certain things were not taught but tested, I also thought it might just be the schools' internal papers and not PSLE.

But I have my doubts when I realised that (correct me if I am wrong):-

1) Past PSLE papers are not released in full but a 5-year PSLE paper arranged by topics (and you cannot tell which question belongs to which year). Why does MOE not release the full paper? Could it be a small percentage of the questions are not taught by schools in order to \"distinguish\" the top few % of the cohort and hence such questions cannot be released to the public?

2) There is no exact mark for a A*, A, ... which means it could fluctuate from year to year. Why is it necessary to \"bell-curve\" each subject when the overall T-score is already bell-curved to rank each student against the cohort?

Well, maybe there are valid reasons to the above and hopefully I will understand the rationale one day

[corneyAmber]

coast:

While it is good to teach our children to work hard, we have to understand that results are dependent on various factors, some of which are beyond our control Some students or parents also take \"extra efforts\" to extreme and the poor kids spend hours and hours on study, neglecting a balanced life. But I know you don't mean that Just want to point it out in case other parents read it and use it to \"inspire\" their kids to put in even more hours on their studies

Yes you are exactly right to know what I mean. It takes wisdom in a parent to recognise and acknowledge how their kids tick to steer them correctly. You are right to point out that working hard alone is not the only criteria, it requires many accompanying factors. And diligence to me is effective diligence. If a person spends an unhealthy amount of time to try and do well in something, sacrificing many things along the way, then aptitude needs to be checked.

[corneyAmber]

coast:

Thanks :oops: You are right to use \"probably\". Every child is unique. These are the 3 things that matter most to me for my DS: Good Health, Happy, Good Character. He is doing very well so far but as parents, we have to keep learning and adjust our parenting style especially in this global world and fast-changing society. I suppose things will work out well when there is a strong parent-child bond

I completely agree with the line in bold.

[coast]

ksi:

coast:

While it is good to teach our children to work hard, we have to understand that results are dependent on various factors, some of which are beyond our control Some students or parents also take \"extra efforts\" to extreme and the poor kids spend hours and hours on study, neglecting a balanced life. But I know you don't mean that Just want to point it out in case other parents read it and use it to \"inspire\" their kids to put in even more hours on their studies

Yes you are exactly right to know what I mean. It takes wisdom in a parent to recognise and acknowledge how their kids tick to steer them correctly. You are right to point out that working hard alone is not the only criteria, it requires many accompanying factors. And diligence to me is effective diligence. If a person spends an unhealthy amount of time to try and do well in something, sacrificing many things along the way, then aptitude needs to be checked.

:goodpost:

\"unhealthy amount\" ... if we are talking about primary school academics, then it might not be a question of aptitude but mindset. I chanced upon this article \"Neighbourhood schools producing top PSLE students\" just a few minutes ago :-

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/what-is-buzzing/neighborhood-schools-producing-top-psle-students-023150377.html

\"Her parents cite her independent study attitude and constant revision that played a significant role in her academic achievements.\"

\"began studying intensely for 5-6 hours a day in June, and the days leading up to the exams placed so much stress on her that she once screamed in tears.\"

\"Even though she always does well in school, she still goes for tuition for Science and Malay subjects.\"

A top scholar from RGPS has tuition in all 4 subjects.

http://news.omy.sg/News/Local%2BNews/Story/OMYStory201112121502-297019.html

ST also interviewed some of the PSLE top scholars and some (or at least one) said she studied 6 to 7 hours daily after school.

I am not judging these kids as they could be leading a happy childhood, enjoy studying long hours or doing this only in the final months of PSLE prep ... but it is sending a wrong signal that our PSLE top scholars require tuition and many hours of study daily for months. It is \"unhealthy\" to me but unlikely a question of aptitude.