MOE to stop publishing names of top students?
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Icarus effect....
Well said, Jtoh. :celebrate: -
Melodies:
atutor2001:
If I may generalize, our children innate ability can be broadly classified into 2 groups \"versatile\" and \"non-versatile\". In Chinese, we can crudely translate it to \"round\" or \"square\".
\"Round\" people are more flexible, looks at things from different angles, can improvise...
\"Square\" people are more rigid, follow rules, seldom explore....
The GEP, IP or mainstream are made up of both groups of children. The percentage of \"Round\" people in GEP and IP is greater than mainstream. Those \"square\" people in GEP and IP will find it harder to catch up, has to put in much more effort.
There are many \"round\" people in the mainstream. Some may even be better than those in GEP or IP. They did not make it because of attitude - no desire to excel. Many parents are aware that their kids are \"round\" people. We are worried that the system has no more place left in IP when their \"round\" child wake up in later years. This is a very valid concern. However, based on my little knowledge of the system, if they do really wake up, there are ample opportunity for them to jump over.
Imho, most misconception that IP children have an unfair advantage arises because we only read about success. Little was published on the hard work that they (don't count those truly gifted - they are from another planet) need to put in. We can only see our kids working hard, producing results (in our opinion, more than adequate) and felt that they deserve to be there. Maybe parents with children doing well should share more on how much effort their kids have put in order to be there. Then we can compare the sacrifice made and not just the results.
We felt that the standard is ridiculous. However, we may not have a choice if we compare with other Asian countries. We then bring out Finland. My belief is our Asian culture is different from theirs. What works for them may not work for us.
If I have a young \"round\" kid now, I will do my best to nurture the correct attitude (must be done before Pr1). Once the attitude is right, tuition may not be a must.
If I have a young \"square\" kid, nurturing the correct attitude must still be done. However, I may let him/her progress at a pace that is comfortable.
:goodpost:
Just sad that those \"round' kids wake up late and only found that all the odds are against them!
Could you share why you think we may not have a choice but to raise the A level standard if we compare with other Asian countries?
Those scholars went oversea, did they find bored?
A good habit to practice, read a full copy of the local or foreign main stream newspaper daily, everything doubtful will fall into places very quickly. -
Twinkies:
:celebrate:Icarus effect....
Well said, Jtoh. :celebrate: -
him4mixer:
Wow!First we must establish the fact that there are people who are more intellectually capable than others. This innate ability will naturally cause some ‘unfairness’ in the education. Until we acknowledge this, we will always cry foul in whatever decision MOE makes.
Why HOT skills are not explicitly taught in mainstream schools? Two reasons.
1. Competency of the students. We must agree that there are different levels of students’ academic abilities. At one extreme end, we have students who have even problems remembering facts and details (LOT skills). The other end we have students who can piece different information together (synergise) and make out new information/concept (synthesis), all these characteristics of HOT skills. ‘O’ level exam as the name implies means ‘ordinary’ which caters to the majority of the population. The exam can’t have too many HOT questions or the back-end cohort will suffer. The IP schools were established to cater to those who can handle these HOT skills and thus were removed from the mainstream schools. This allowed the ‘O’ level exam to be still manageable for the majority while we take in the more capable ones and teach them HOT skills. If a capable student chooses to stay in the ‘O’ level track, that’s his/her choice and we should respect that. The student may or may not have lots of catch up to do if he/she goes to a top JC.
2. Competency of the teachers. Not all teachers are capable in the same manner. Some are good in classroom management, some in admin, some in positive influence and some in planning. I agree that not all my colleagues are good at these qualities I’ve listed above but there is one common quality in all of us: academic ability. Gone were the days when we wondered why some of our JC tutors are so xxx… Many of my colleagues graduated with good class honors and above and with a handful from top uni in the world. We have a few who are protégé of some Nobel prize winners. Several hold PhD degrees and have written textbooks for students’ use. Some others in their free time managed to write and publish their own chain of story books. When equipped with the right teaching techniques, we are effective and efficient to teach our students and inspire them to follow us. Unfortunately this is not the case for every school. Efforts to ‘spread’ these teachers to all schools will result in them being ineffective.
This post has gone un-replied to in 3 pages! You just posted, on many levels, such an un-PC, eugenics-based post, but in such a dry/factual way that it flew right under the radar!
If I had written, to quote you, \"First we must establish the fact that there are people who are more intellectually capable than others. This innate ability will naturally cause some ‘unfairness’ in the education. Until we acknowledge this, we will always cry foul in whatever decision MOE makes.\" .......I would have been flamed to death already. -
Twinkies:
Melodies:
[quote=\"atutor2001\"]If I may generalize, our children innate ability can be broadly classified into 2 groups \"versatile\" and \"non-versatile\". In Chinese, we can crudely translate it to \"round\" or \"square\".
\"Round\" people are more flexible, looks at things from different angles, can improvise...
\"Square\" people are more rigid, follow rules, seldom explore....
The GEP, IP or mainstream are made up of both groups of children. The percentage of \"Round\" people in GEP and IP is greater than mainstream. Those \"square\" people in GEP and IP will find it harder to catch up, has to put in much more effort.
There are many \"round\" people in the mainstream. Some may even be better than those in GEP or IP. They did not make it because of attitude - no desire to excel. Many parents are aware that their kids are \"round\" people. We are worried that the system has no more place left in IP when their \"round\" child wake up in later years. This is a very valid concern. However, based on my little knowledge of the system, if they do really wake up, there are ample opportunity for them to jump over.
Imho, most misconception that IP children have an unfair advantage arises because we only read about success. Little was published on the hard work that they (don't count those truly gifted - they are from another planet) need to put in. We can only see our kids working hard, producing results (in our opinion, more than adequate) and felt that they deserve to be there. Maybe parents with children doing well should share more on how much effort their kids have put in order to be there. Then we can compare the sacrifice made and not just the results.
We felt that the standard is ridiculous. However, we may not have a choice if we compare with other Asian countries. We then bring out Finland. My belief is our Asian culture is different from theirs. What works for them may not work for us.
If I have a young \"round\" kid now, I will do my best to nurture the correct attitude (must be done before Pr1). Once the attitude is right, tuition may not be a must.
If I have a young \"square\" kid, nurturing the correct attitude must still be done. However, I may let him/her progress at a pace that is comfortable.
:goodpost:
Just sad that those \"round' kids wake up late and only found that all the odds are against them!
Could you share why you think we may not have a choice but to raise the A level standard if we compare with other Asian countries?
Those scholars went oversea, did they find bored?
A good habit to practice, read a full copy of the local or foreign main stream newspaper daily, everything doubtful will fall into places very quickly.[/quote]I can't reconcile le. Those went oversea are our top brains but learning something less mortal than local A levels le..then how to lead the nation to face all the challenges in Asia if this is your point. though good exposure and networking..
Isn't necessary to raise the standard up to master level.
I'm trying to reconciling cause and effect... -
him4mixer:
It's precisely this attitude that disturbs me most. This happens not only in law, but also in medicine and other \"good\" faculties. And, of course, among the scholars. It's not so prevalent in the current generation of thirty something and older working adults, but is increasingly apparent in the younger twenty-something adults. This attitude of us vs them attitude. And I am very, very concerned of the future of Singapore.In conclusion:
The gap between IP and non-IP JCs is widening. Gone were the days where we could hear students from the lower end JCs making it into the medicine or law. One common joke among my ex-students in the law faculty told me: There are only 2 JCs in the Law faculty; RI(JC) and OJC (other JCs). Even within IP schools, the gap is widening too between the govt and independent IP JCs.
It's quite different from the past, where there were several good schools, and students from the not so good schools. And generally, it was the latter who, in their working careers, were more hungry for success, more willing to take risk and work harder to succeed. -
him4mixer:
It's precisely this attitude that disturbs me most. This happens not only in law, but also in medicine and other \"good\" faculties. And, of course, among the scholars. It's not so prevalent in the current generation of thirty something and older working adults, but is increasingly apparent in the younger twenty-something adults. This attitude of us vs them attitude. And I am very, very concerned of the future of Singapore.In conclusion:
The gap between IP and non-IP JCs is widening. Gone were the days where we could hear students from the lower end JCs making it into the medicine or law. One common joke among my ex-students in the law faculty told me: There are only 2 JCs in the Law faculty; RI(JC) and OJC (other JCs). Even within IP schools, the gap is widening too between the govt and independent IP JCs.
It's quite different from the past, where there were several good schools, and students from the not so good schools. And generally, it was the latter who, in their working careers, were more hungry for success, more willing to take risk and work harder to succeed. -
sinoboy:
Yes agree. I think those forummers condemning foreigner scholars posting nice photos of themselves and scolding your parents are a bit overboard too. I dare not refer to anyone specific though. :roll:[/quote]
is a fact. singapore has no enough thinking people, with many loud mouth but narrow minded xenophobic nationalist clamoring on personal interest in the short term onlybupashu:
[quote=\"sinoboy\"]
Wow Twinkles you sound like a miniStar! :salute:
not referring to any one specific here
This is also not peculiar to foreigner scholars in SG, vise versa.
SG scholars at overseas top uni do make news too. -
3Boys:
We were waiting for you lah.
This post has gone un-replied to in 3 pages! You just posted, on many levels, such an un-PC, eugenics-based post, but in such a dry/factual way that it flew right under the radar! -
Twinkies:
[/quote]Thank you for reminding.. .. the GEPPER!sinoboy:
[quote=\"bupashu\"]
Yes agree. I think those forummers condemning foreigner scholars posting nice photos of themselves and scolding your parents are a bit overboard too. I dare not refer to anyone specific though. :roll:
This is also not peculiar to foreigner scholars in SG, vise versa.
SG scholars at overseas top uni do make news too.
:slapshead:
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