Express or Normal stream
-
caroline3sg:
Personally I only know 3 stories which is enough to frighten me :atutor2001
The environment of normal class is that bad??
St. Margaret's, Bukit Panjang Govt High, Fairfield Methodist etc all have normal class.
For those 188 to 198, they can choose these schools as opposed to eg Kent Ridge Express class.
Don't you think the former is better?
mrswongtuition, what is your take?
1. A very intelligent boy went to St And. Normal - end up in Boys Home in Sec 2
2. A Girl got into trouble in school and parents help to change school. The old schoolmates went to her new school to beat her up in full view of her new classmates.
3. Boy who wanted to study couldn't hear what the (male) teacher was explaining because the others behind were playing cards - I don't blame the teacher, if you ever meet these boys you will understand his predicament.
What we have seen on TV show has happened somewhere in real life. That is why I salute those teachers who teach Normal classes. It takes great love to tolerate these kids.
Regards -
mrswongtuition:
I was in a comparatively lousy express class. True, the environment wasn't conducive for learning. My classmates played one practical joke on a teacher and we were condemned as 'the class that plays practical jokes on teachers' since the class was already identified as 'naughty' and 'does not want to study' by most teachers.FYI, if the child is in express stream but a 'lousy' class, the studying environment is equally bad. Serious.
BUT, once in express, as long as family support is there & the child is willing to work hard, don't have to worry much about the quality of the school.
What I've benefitted from the stream was that it exposed me to the content that's appropriate for O levels for those 4 years. I didn't feel the need to do a big jump to adjust myself to the O level content.
I agree that a supportive family and the attitude to learn is more important when you're in an express class, even if the class is a lousy express class. I remember failing my Maths constantly in Sec 4. That very morning before I went for my Maths paper, my elder sister, out of the blue, quickly taught me how to answer a few popular Maths questions and thank God they all came out. And I managed to scrape through with a pass.
In normal stream, even if you want to study hard, the odds are against you. Your classmates are more likely to not want to study and the pace is much slower. There is a need to do a huge jump at the O level year in terms of content, which I think is not appropriate since it's a crucial year and everything is going at an accelerated pace.
I'm not sure how true this is, but my husband said that Bt Panjang's normal stream is doing express classes' work becos they are capable of that. And the school wants to prepare them for O levels as early as possible, altho they still take the 5-yr route to O levels. That doesn't sound logical to me tho. If they are really so good, then make them do O levels at the 4th year lah. Do the same thing as express but do for one more year, wouldn't that make them very very good? Then all of them should be able to qualify for good JCs.
If it's my own kids, I'll still ask them to choose express, regardless of the school quality. -
Caroline, if I’m a parent making that choice, I’ll choose a neighbourhood school & get into Express.
If I’m a teacher making that choice, I’ll still make the same choice.
Have you seen NA classes? Even from ‘good’ schools, you’ll shake your head & wonder ‘WHY DO THEY BEHAVE LIKE THIS!?’. I previously taught in an autonomous school, taught kids with wide range of PSLE T-scores from 100 - 270. During MTP, the parents will tell you how angelic their kids are at home! & when you describe in detail what their kid is doing in school, you’ll see alot of faces turn RED with embarrassment or worse, turn BLACK (& some will start scolding their kids).
Atutor, I previously thought that it’ll be a miracle to be able to tolerate those kids. But from real life experience, they are not brainy but they are full of heart. They’re your ‘kampung kids’ who are caring (though sometimes quite rough) and friendly (though they can get quite vulgar). They don’t bear grudges like more intelligent kids. They seldom think of revenge or are resentful (those that are usually come from a complicated family). Although teaching them academically is very draining, it’s very rewarding when they come to you at the end of the day to say ‘Thank you’. Their results may not be perfect, but you know that their appreciation really comes from their heart.
I love interacting with them and getting to help them non-academically. Counselling them, chatting about career options, listening to their frustrations, sharing jokes, etc. What they really need is someone who can listen to them sincerely. Usually once they ‘let go’ what they need to say, they start to pick up academically. -
mrswongtuition:
Hi mrswongtuition
Atutor, I previously thought that it'll be a miracle to be able to tolerate those kids. But from real life experience, they are not brainy but they are full of heart. They're your 'kampung kids' who are caring (though sometimes quite rough) and friendly (though they can get quite vulgar). They don't bear grudges like more intelligent kids. They seldom think of revenge or are resentful (those that are usually come from a complicated family). Although teaching them academically is very draining, it's very rewarding when they come to you at the end of the day to say 'Thank you'. Their results may not be perfect, but you know that their appreciation really comes from their heart.
I love interacting with them and getting to help them non-academically. Counselling them, chatting about career options, listening to their frustrations, sharing jokes, etc. What they really need is someone who can listen to them sincerely. Usually once they 'let go' what they need to say, they start to pick up academically.
I fully agree with you that these kids can become angelic when we gain their trust. Great to know that there are caring teachers like you. Cheers! :celebrate: :celebrate: :celebrate: -
mrswongtuition:
Well said mrswongtuition. The normal kids were my friends outside of school. Yes, very caring, can be rough, friendly and vulgar. Another thing is there's no hypocrisy among them. They don't like you, they tell you off right on the face. No back stabbing, no bad mouthing.Atutor, I previously thought that it'll be a miracle to be able to tolerate those kids. But from real life experience, they are not brainy but they are full of heart. They're your 'kampung kids' who are caring (though sometimes quite rough) and friendly (though they can get quite vulgar). They don't bear grudges like more intelligent kids. They seldom think of revenge or are resentful (those that are usually come from a complicated family). Although teaching them academically is very draining, it's very rewarding when they come to you at the end of the day to say 'Thank you'. Their results may not be perfect, but you know that their appreciation really comes from their heart.
I love interacting with them and getting to help them non-academically. Counselling them, chatting about career options, listening to their frustrations, sharing jokes, etc. What they really need is someone who can listen to them sincerely. Usually once they 'let go' what they need to say, they start to pick up academically.
I agree too. If my niece is given a choice, she better be in express stream. A serious normal stream student is hard to come by. -
mrswongtuition & atutor2001
Thank you for sharing.
I have not seen NA classes from good schools. I don’t believe St. Margaret’s is like this. Same for chinese origin schools like Chung Cheng (Yishun), Bukit Panjang Govt High. I don’t think going to open house, I am able to see what both of you describe.
Perhaps you can pm me which are these schs. -
caroline3sg:
As I said before, I previously taught in a 'not so neighbourhood' type of school (it's autonomous). Most parents don't even consider that school a neighbourhood school!mrswongtuition & atutor2001
Thank you for sharing.
I have not seen NA classes from good schools. I don't believe St. Margaret's is like this. Same for chinese origin schools like Chung Cheng (Yishun), Bukit Panjang Govt High. I don't think going to open house, I am able to see what both of you describe.
Perhaps you can pm me which are these schs.
However, the NA stream kids there, though slightly better than real neighbourhood schools, they are still very distracting & not able to focus in class.
P/S: You can't see much during open house either. The 'best' way to see the real situation is to volunteer your services to the school. Volunteer to bring them on excursion, or help out at school events. That's when you see the 'true colours' of the kids. During open house, the kids are briefed & warned to behave. Plus, they usually get the 'better' kids to stay & help. The usual trouble makers are usually not given the task of helping at open house.
It's like when guests come to your house, you'll naturally quick go hide all the things that will give your guests bad impressions.
And another thing to note is the CCA in the school. What is their niche area? Is your child interested in those CCAs? Cos CCA is compulsory & you'll want your child to be in a CCA he/she loves, plus be able to rise up to leadership positions. If the CCA is not the school's niche area, they usually get very little FUNDs plus very little recognition. -
mrswongtuition
Thank you. Major things I look at are:
1) sch vision/mission
2) character/academic award
3) banding for ‘O’ levels
CCA, either Chinese Dance or Choir, not a major criteria. -
caroline3sg:
Aiyo, caroline, don't be deceived lah. Sch vision and mission are crap. Any school can give grand and great-sounding vision and mission. I haven't seen a negative vision and mission.mrswongtuition
Thank you. Major things I look at are:
1) sch vision/mission
2) character/academic award
3) banding for 'O' levels
CCA, either Chinese Dance or Choir, not a major criteria. -
caroline3sg:
Skip #1.mrswongtuition
Thank you. Major things I look at are:
1) sch vision/mission
2) character/academic award
3) banding for 'O' levels
CCA, either Chinese Dance or Choir, not a major criteria.
Can also just glance at #2 but don't take it to heart. It's all about PAPERWORK & awards chasing. Would you want the school teachers to be busy preparing lessons or busy preparing reports to chase for awards?
#3 is rather important. Another thing to look out for is VALUE-ADDED. This means the school's students outperform what MOE predicted based on their PSLE scores. Which also translates as based on the PSLE scores of their students, they should be getting worse results through MOE's prediction system. But they scored better, so it's worth looking at.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login