Is GEP really necessary?
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2ppaamm:
I dont think it is justified to say that to survive in GEP, you just need hardworking parents and lots of tutors. This is definitely not so in my ds school. Maybe this happens in some of the 'rich GEP centres'. From what I observed, majority of the students in my ds's school did not have tuition in science or maths. I would say that majority of the GEP do the work themselves and learn from the teachers. Usually, for projects, the parents may give some ideas on how to start, the actual writing or research are done by the child. I dont think there are many parents who can help in all 4 subjects. And if the child needs the parents or tutors to do the project or work, then he would be very miserable and insecure in GEP since they have to do quite a number of projects each year.O, I am so tempted to say this. If you look at the GEP curriculum, you really don't need to be gifted to survive or excel in it. You just need hardworking parents and lots of tutors. If it is for gifted kids, restrict the work in class, and spare the parents for goodness sake!So how does it feel if your child is not in the GEP, and you other children getting those DSA places from their parents' hard work. The world is never fair, but we don't have to make it less fair.
And this is no sour grapes. I have 2 DSA children. I felt it was unfair, too, because I could afford the time, the money and the commitment to go through those. Because I could afford does not make it more fair. -
PiggyLalala:
I am inclined to believe Piggy. With 25 in a class and ample reference materials to read and learn from, the school's teaching should be quite sufficient EVEN IF there are presentations and such. I wouldn't see the need for tuition nor parent help either.
I dont think it is justified to say that to survive in GEP, you just need hardworking parents and lots of tutors. This is definitely not so in my ds school. Maybe this happens in some of the 'rich GEP centres'. From what I observed, majority of the students in my ds's school did not have tuition in science or maths. I would say that majority of the GEP do the work themselves and learn from the teachers. Usually, for projects, the parents may give some ideas on how to start, the actual writing or research are done by the child. I dont think there are many parents who can help in all 4 subjects. And if the child needs the parents or tutors to do the project or work, then he would be very miserable and insecure in GEP since they have to do quite a number of projects each year.2ppaamm:
O, I am so tempted to say this. If you look at the GEP curriculum, you really don't need to be gifted to survive or excel in it. You just need hardworking parents and lots of tutors. If it is for gifted kids, restrict the work in class, and spare the parents for goodness sake!So how does it feel if your child is not in the GEP, and you other children getting those DSA places from their parents' hard work. The world is never fair, but we don't have to make it less fair.
And this is no sour grapes. I have 2 DSA children. I felt it was unfair, too, because I could afford the time, the money and the commitment to go through those. Because I could afford does not make it more fair.
I have looked through GEP written resources and think that HA kids can more than cope even without tuition. After all, DS currently learns off GEP written resources, has no tuition but still can cope.
Many mainstream parents these days send for tuition to compensate for what mainstream schools don't teach but do test. This, I would imagine, has lesser chance of happening in GEP and in the HA classes of GEP centres. -
Chenonceau:
I am inclined to believe Piggy. With 25 in a class and ample reference materials to read and learn from, the school's teaching should be quite sufficient EVEN IF there are presentations and such. I wouldn't see the need for tuition nor parent help either.
I dont think it is justified to say that to survive in GEP, you just need hardworking parents and lots of tutors. This is definitely not so in my ds school. Maybe this happens in some of the 'rich GEP centres'. From what I observed, majority of the students in my ds's school did not have tuition in science or maths. I would say that majority of the GEP do the work themselves and learn from the teachers. Usually, for projects, the parents may give some ideas on how to start, the actual writing or research are done by the child. I dont think there are many parents who can help in all 4 subjects. And if the child needs the parents or tutors to do the project or work, then he would be very miserable and insecure in GEP since they have to do quite a number of projects each year.PiggyLalala:
[quote=\"2ppaamm\"]O, I am so tempted to say this. If you look at the GEP curriculum, you really don't need to be gifted to survive or excel in it. You just need hardworking parents and lots of tutors. If it is for gifted kids, restrict the work in class, and spare the parents for goodness sake!So how does it feel if your child is not in the GEP, and you other children getting those DSA places from their parents' hard work. The world is never fair, but we don't have to make it less fair.
And this is no sour grapes. I have 2 DSA children. I felt it was unfair, too, because I could afford the time, the money and the commitment to go through those. Because I could afford does not make it more fair.
I have looked through GEP written resources and think that HA kids can more than cope even without tuition. After all, DS currently learns off GEP written resources, has no tuition but still can cope.
Many mainstream parents these days send for tuition to compensate for what mainstream schools don't teach but do test. This, I would imagine, has lesser chance of happening in GEP and in the HA classes of GEP centres.[/quote]O, I think you read me wrong. What I'm saying is that, you don't have to be gifted to survive GEP. Meaning, a non gifted child can survive GEP with hardworking parents and lots of tuition. I didn't mean everybody needs to have tuition teachers and parents' help to survive.
And, I don't think a child can get into GEP without being at least very HA.
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Chenonceau:
I also think kids should all just be in their own classes, mixed, so they can play with everyone their ages. You can have high ability classes, and I do suggest smaller class sizes of perhaps 30. And those gifted ones can be pulled out for their specialties with professors or industry experts (not the MOE teachers, for goodness sake!). And, every school should have their own HA classes, just 500 in a nation is just too small. Maybe at least 3 classes every school? We need to spend more on our own children's education! And, the GEP DSA should be open to ALL HA students if they want to keep it. Otherwise, scrap it!
I realise we are looking at the same problem from 2 different perspectives.
Your Perspective: EG Poorly Served
You have an EG not served by a system that insists that it has too little resources to give individualized attention... so even in GEP, there must be aggregate banding so that kids are good everywhere and thus Teachers' lives are made easier. So our GEP has evolved into a HA Program? In that case, my son would have managed just fine.
It is true that God is fair. When he gives EXTRAORDINARY talent in one area, it is almost always at the expense of very uneven development in others. This makes Yee Jenn Jong's suggestion to leave EG kids IN mainstream quite logical. This way, they can follow the other subjects at normal pace and their PET subject can be accelerated via online modules and one-to-one special classes. After all, how many EG can there be in a year? Surely we can manage to cater to the 1 or 2 a year? We are not a poor country eh?
My Perspective: Mainstream Poorly Served
I have an HA who is poorly served by a school that until recently gave no extra (though necessary) documented resources. I had to give him written resources from 2 GEP centres, add some sourced from overseas, add others that aren't stocked by Popular. He went through the materials independently and is doing fine. Not top... but fine.
Cutting past the irrelevant details of face, elitism etc... and looking purely at the quality of teaching, 2 things I particularly envy about the GEP are...
(1) small classes
(2) dedicated written resources developed by GEP Branch
Mainstream curriculum has evolved to comprise features that once were GEP. By the way, I was trained to teach GEP decades ago AND I have actually taught gifted kids before. I recognise features of today's mainstream curriculum from what little I can remember of the GEP many years ago. Teach Less Learn More was what I did with my GEP kids a long time ago, way before it became the stinking tag line and euphemism for Tuition, that it is today.
It was good exposure for me because I later adapted the method for adults. And I still use it today with DS.
In fact, I have lesser problems teaching DS his current mainstream syllabus, than many of his Teachers. I actually KNOW how to structure, plan and evaluate Teach Less Learn More interventions PROPERLY. To properly Teach Less Learn More, you need
(1) smaller classes
(2) ample written resources (or video) for kids to independently consult
In essence, if you really know Teach Less Learn More, you can teach a child plenty without needing to yourself know ANYTHING. This is how I taught DS Chinese (whilst being Chinese illiterate), Math (without bothering to master models), Science (with only an amateur's interest). I'm only good at English and DS doesn't really need to be taught there. And NO TUITION (even though I consider my work with him at home, very heavy tuition).
Question is... why did features of the GEP syllabus make it into mainstream without the key supporting features such as
(1) smaller classes
(2) ample written resources (or video) for kids to independently consult
I am not saying GEP is unnecessary. I think many kids in GEP enjoy the learning. My question is, why do we have a bastardized mainstream now... with GEP syllabus features ... but a non-GEP teaching support structure? Had I known this to be the case, I would have paid to hothouse my son into GEP, and not apologise for it. He has to do some of it in mainstream anyway so why not go the whole hog and let him enjoy...
(1) smaller classes
(2) ample written resources (or video) for kids to independently consult
DS is not gifted. Not by a long shot. He is clearly, HA. I thought I knew the GEP and so I never bothered to push him there. Then I found GEP came to mainstream.
My other thought is that DSA and PSLE should be mutually exclusive. But that is another topic altogether!
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how to teach kids math or chinese WITHOUT having to know them yourself?? :?
sure u need some basic mah, no meh?? -
smurf:
I know some Math (of course) but till now, cannot do models.how to teach kids math or chinese WITHOUT having to know them yourself?? :?
sure u need some basic mah, no meh??
I am illiterate in Chinese... though these days, I am learning fast to recognise some characters with the help of Google Translate. Quite fun. With some practice, I can even post some cheem Chinese (like θ·³θΏι»ζ²³δΉζ΄δΈζΈ ) ... but I can help DS' compo marks improve from 18/40 in SA1 last year to 29/40 last week in a class compo.
Can be done. To me, not difficult. To others, maybe impossible. -
2ppaamm:
This sounds a lot like what Yee Jenn Jong is suggesting. It is misleading to title his writings \"Scrap GEP\" or something like that. I read him through and realized that he wasn't suggesting to kill off GEP but to enhance it for the GEP and HA students' holistic development...
I also think kids should all just be in their own classes, mixed, so they can play with everyone their ages. You can have high ability classes, and I do suggest smaller class sizes of perhaps 30. And those gifted ones can be pulled out for their specialties with professors or industry experts (not the MOE teachers, for goodness sake!). And, every school should have their own HA classes, just 500 in a nation is just too small. Maybe at least 3 classes every school? We need to spend more on our own children's education! And, the GEP DSA should be open to ALL HA students if they want to keep it. Otherwise, scrap it!
My other thought is that DSA and PSLE should be mutually exclusive. But that is another topic altogether! -
2ppaamm:
What is GEP DSA? Are u referring to certain privilege granted to some applicants in a few schools?And, the GEP DSA should be open to ALL HA students if they want to keep it. Otherwise, scrap it!
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2ppaamm:
Low spending in education as relative to defense? cos MOE gets second highest budget every year.
As it is, we have low spending in education, weird gifted programs and real gifted children left in the cold, unequal advantage given to children identified at P3, etc. These just do not make sense to me.
But yes, I totally agree that smaller class sizes are the way to go, across the board, for ALL schools. It will help solve a whole spectrum of problems.
i) more attention/better quality teaching to each child
ii) less severely overworked teachers (marking wise)
iii) more order in class, less crowd control discipline issues
Train more teachers, hire more teachers, teach the teachers WELL.
Recall it was also in some opposition manifesto to increase the teaching workforce and regulate/curtail the less value-add industries.
Recently heard it said again by a respected academic - why should there be so many real estate agents? cut them by half! channel resources into attracting ppl into meaningful, true value add professions like teaching that help in nation building.
Not to offend realtors, but objectively, is their value add commensurate with the commission? everyone is just leeching on unsustainable property prices in the current baseless euphoria. perhaps there should be a severe crash /rightful correction in the ppty market, then resources can be channeled to more meaningful economic sectors. and even if there isn't, should there be a cap on commission? does a person selling a $39m ppty do very much more than someone who sells a $700k one?
Teachers are already being paid relatively well, but if class sizes are reduced, we'll need many more teachers. no need to pay each teacher more, just need to channel more budget into paying more teachers.
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