Are you ready for 7 million people on tiny Singapore?

[3Boys]

raysusan:

[quote]Dear All,


I am PhD research student majoring in Economics and finance.

I am writing this as simply as I can. I am writing to all Singaporeans, as a Singaporean myself not to fall for this utterly disgraceful and poorly written amateurish script called the Population Growth 2030 White Paper released by Singapore Govt............

http://therealsingapore.com/content/it%E2%80%99s-propaganda-paper-disguised-white-paper

what you guys think?[/quote]Ha Ha!

I won't be quite as harsh, but it's interesting to note the difference between a 'white' paper and 'green' paper.

Honestly, I'm not sure it matters, but all the same, this 'white' paper needs to be looked at more as a road map than a policy intent. Certainly, it's basic tenets (as noted by WeiHan), are very nebulous, and based on these tenets, the g'ment appears to have set course already. This is what's causing the angst, I guess.

I actually have a bit of a hard time figuring out the intent of the release of this document. They are making some major geographical and infrastructure interventions, and maybe they are preparing the ground for that?

[MR06]

MR06:

octoberbaby:

One of our taiwanese friends got her PR few months after her arrival. She said her agent in Taiwan will handle all everything concerning Singapore Immigrations. She paid SIN$10,000.00 to get whole family PR status thru this Taiwanese agent.

She came her, few mths later, bought HDB 4 room flat. Few months later she rent a master-bed room in condo. Rent out her 4-rm flat. She is a study-mama, husband doing china business.

Dora1:

Nope, after MOP can rent out whole flat also. This is applicable to SCs, and PRs until the recent cooling measure in Jan this year. Prior to this, they can rent out the whole flat after MOP just like SCs. So many HDB rental units, where are the owners staying? Of cos in their condos!

Anyway, I know so many PR couples, where 1 of them convert to SC, so they bought new flats, and rent out while they went back to their home country to work. This is even during the MOP cos HDB allows renting out of HDBs during MOP if the whole family is posted overseas to work.

That's why the stats show that only a couple of thousands of PR renting out their flats. This actually excludes those where 1 spouse have converted.

So actually the weakest link is allowing 1 of the PR couple to convert to SCs. All the cooling measures or whatever other measures will not work on these people who have the intention of abusing the system and cash in on the benefits. That's why they should not allow only 1 spouse to convert. Want to convert both must convert together.

The loopholes and flouting of rules are not new and everyone knows, only those policy makers \"don't know\" or \"don't want to know\".

The \"valid reasons\" given by the spouse not converting are

1. have business interests in home country and a lot of government-linked business, so cannot convert.

2. only heir to properties in home country, the law prohibits ownership of such properties by foreigners, so cannot convert.

3. aged parents in home country, the parents are paranoid of being left behind, so cannot convert

and the list goes on..... like fake divorce......

I can bear with the overcrowding, the competition, the uncouth behaviour, the bad breathe and the arm-pit smell.... I only worry what I feared most would come true.....

We embrace savvy people who come here during the good times not because they want to be citizens or have intention to call Singapore their home.

They have no qualms in circumventing the requirements to qualify as citizens, as PRs. They are out to reap maximum gains for themselves and make a quick exit with their loot when times are bad.

What would happen to our country, our economy and most importantly our people? I don't worry about the trees I grow in my garden that started out as seedlings. I am just worried about how the mature trees that I transplanted in my garden fare when I have continuous stormy days knowing how deep their roots are...... :sad:

[hercules]

3Boys:

I actually have a bit of a hard time figuring out the intent of the release of this document. They are making some major geographical and infrastructure interventions, and maybe they are preparing the ground for that?

Many just dont trust the government anymore. The general public reaction towards this White Paper reflects this distrust to the max. PAP really needs to do something to this distrust before it becomes bad to worst. I am not totally pro WP or pro PAP but this population issue tends to swing me towards voting anyone but PAP which is worrying as I believe many maybe similar to me.

My take is the number will be compromised to around '6 million' at the end. Government will say, \"I listened to you and I did give in to a certain extent hor.\"

[goldfish2013]

Just relax:

The increase in population size mitigates the consequences and effects of an aging population. There is an economies of scale issue here where because Singapore is small the greater density can lead to a mitigation of costs increases that will continue to happen.


There is also an insufficient domestic market to sustain Singapore's current rate of economic growth and so if u do nothing, eventually you will start to deflate economically leading to a lower quality of life in an overcrowded environment.

I am not sure as to what is the right population figure as it is crystal ball gazing at best. But unless you have a time travel machine, the best you can do is to look into the crystal ball and hope you are seeing what you hope to see!

There will always be an insufficient domestic market to sustain economic growth, so the population will always has to be on the rise if population growth is the way to boost economy.
I hope your children can be as relax as you in 2030.

[3Boys]

hercules:

3Boys:

I actually have a bit of a hard time figuring out the intent of the release of this document. They are making some major geographical and infrastructure interventions, and maybe they are preparing the ground for that?

Many just dont trust the government anymore. The general public reaction towards this White Paper reflects this distrust to the max. PAP really needs to do something to this distrust before it becomes bad to worst. I am not totally pro WP or pro PAP but this population issue tends to swing me towards voting anyone but PAP which is worrying as I believe many maybe similar to me.

My take is the number will be compromised to around '6 million' at the end. Government will say, \"I listened to you and I did give in to a certain extent hor.\"

You know, I'm not cynical about their intentions. The MIW crafting these policies will unlikely personally benefit much from it, as they will be deep into their 70s/80s by the time it comes around. Also, as you can see, the potential 'new' citizens can be quite an unruly lot, unlike us docile SGreans

So there is perhaps a drive to map out what the future Singapore should look like, from the MIW point of view, and start making the necessary infrastructure adjustments. That's where I eventually landed on this, that they are preparing for what we may need to be, and these are then changes we are going to start acting on.

Because it is strange to see a 'statement' that we 'need' to be at 6.9 million in 2030, because there is just no way we can be so precise. And honestly, I don't see that they are trying to work to that number at all.

[concern2]

hercules:

concern2:

Think that's why 3boys kept bringing up the point on whether WP is ready to take on as alternative govt. I agree that WP seem to have to prepare themselves - fast. Otherwise, siao siao, people suddenly feel buay da han, want to hood hor yi zi bai zialat zialat, then what..

So for voters like me. I am not supportive of PAP on this population issue and I have no confidence of WP is ready to take over the government yet in Y2016. Voting either one also will land me jialat jialat. So, what can I do? Vote for SDP? Choose the lesser evil? Tikam tikam?

Whole family migrating is in my planning. Not sure where to migrate yet and of course I will pick a country which I 'think' is better than here years down the road. If my whole family quits, then you will have 'new' one in. So the local:new ratio may keep changing.

祸国殃民.

My level of 'huan loh' (worry) now is comparable to that of DS doing his PSLE in 2016... But from now till GE, I can't do anything, so I will focus my efforts in getting DS prepared for his PSLE

[hercules]

3Boys:

Because it is strange to see a 'statement' that we 'need' to be at 6.9 million in 2030, because there is just no way we can be so precise. And honestly, I don't see that they are trying to work to that number at all.

My hunch is no good cos as you said it is 'strange' for them to want to plant a bomb like this before Y2016 election campaign.

I am speculating that a more bitter pill is coming our way and this 'statement' is just a prelude to something probably worst such as the plan to build a nuclear power plant to cater for the mass population. Something more 'sinister' is in the pipeline - my very bad feelings about it.

Shucks! How huh? I dont trust PAP anymore and in everything they do, I wonder and ponder. Will that make me one day becomes also one of those who-oppose-for-the-sake-of-opposing?

[3Boys]

hercules:

I am speculating that a more bitter pill is coming our way and this 'statement' is just a prelude to something probably worst such as the plan to build a nuclear power plant to cater for the mass population. Something more 'sinister' is in the pipeline - my very bad feelings about it.

Haha! No chance!

Imagine the nuclear reaction from Indonesia and Malaysia, if we don't depose our g'ment by then, they might choose to do it for us :evil:

[Fairy]

dolphinsiah:

http://i47.tinypic.com/24fh937.jpg\">


No! No! I am not ready...by then maybe I am already hand in my IC.... :censored:

Hi,
good that you have this option...'to hand in your IC'.

Our welll paid policy makers, including their offspring will also have this option. If things doesnt work out in SG, they are in a position to escape, after reaping the rewards of the so-called economic benefits of the population growth policy. :siam: However, the majority of us will be stuck here....left to face the consequence..to suffer... :imdrowning: :mad: :stompfeet: :frustrated:

[concern2]

Fairy:

dolphinsiah:

No! No! I am not ready...by then maybe I am already hand in my IC.... :censored:

Hi,
good that you have this option...'to hand in your IC'.

Our welll paid policy makers, including their offspring will also have this option. If things doesnt work out in SG, they are in a position to escape, after reaping the rewards of the so-called economic benefits of the population growth policy. :siam: However, the majority of us will be stuck here....left to face the consequence..to suffer... :imdrowning: :mad: :stompfeet: :frustrated:

:? I thought hand in IC means kick the bucket? If so, everyone should have the 'option' to hand in IC, just donno when... :rotflmao: