Any parents of gifted children here ?
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heutistmeintag:
I agree its necessary to have programs like GEP cos without it, the truly gifted kids will be left with nothing! They will be forced to languish in classrooms that cater to the majority of kids. Their potential will never be realised and they will just totally give up and 'switch off' mentally. What I have grouse about is that the GEP program starts way too late at P4. Many of these kids will have 'switch off' by that time and it will be just too late for them. The schools have special programs that cater to special needs children like the dyslexic and autistic right from the beginning but why not for gifted kids? If you think about it, they are special needs too. It is sad, really sad.Peronally, I think special programs like GEP is necssary ..just like sports school, La Selle etc We need an avenue and a choice for kids with special abilities in certain areas to develop to their fullest.
This controversy is aggravated when you have GEP+Kiasu-ism together. Practically every parents want their kids to excel, to be somehow better than themselves (yes, I am guilty of that too). I guess it's a homo sapien instinct to evolve...but carried to the extreme in our Singaporean context, we are now also hearing that we need to be ahead of the pack to survive ..because we do not have natural resources. In the pursue of excellence and survival, compassion and grace have unfortunately taken a backseat.
So I would like to exhort all KSPs not to debate the definition of Giftedness anymore. What is more important is to consider if we had done the right things for our children. Contrary to what the name of this webby insinuate, I have become more enlightened and less KS since I started coming to this forum. Seriously, this KSP.com label doesnt do us justice.
I also agree that the GEP program is in such controversy now because of the KS mentality of some parents who try all ways and means of making sure their kids get in because of the so-called 'prestige' factor. But isn't it true that some of the top PSLE pupils do not come from the GEP program? To me, the GEP program, by right, should cater to the different learning needs of these children which are not met in the normal classroom.
Maybe the MOE should lower the profile of the program, like make it 'underground' so that it is less contentious? And the program should really start at P1 in my humble opinion. Im sure all the parents here with these kids will agree with me - the kids will be spared most of the confidence and self-esteem problems they faced in school and will be much happier.
Re compassion and grace, these should be largely taught at home. We should not put all blame on the school because our children are not compassionate or graceful, should we?
Re feeling superior, it also depends on what is being taught at home. We never told our boy that he is gifted or cleverer than the other children. In fact, we didn't even tell my in-laws about it. We always tell him that everybody has their own strengths, like his friend may not be good at reading but he's good at running. What is most impt is to do one's best. -
gifted:
From what I read, West Grove offers the high ability students extra classes in more advanced maths, research, etc. These students continue to attend normal classes with other medium/low ability kids every day. This is very different from the gifted program, where the kids attend \"special\" classes every day. Kids in the gifted program are separated from other kids of \"lower ability\", and in a way they seem to be more superior than others.
Even the primary school that you have plan to send your girl, they too adopt the GEP kind of teaching and only targets the top 20% of each cohort. Have anyone ever think, what if my child dun fall in the top 20%, then what type of programe are offer to my child? I know a mother who has a problem child, he just cannot excel in his works and is currently place in the bottom class of the cohort. The teacher told the mother that if her child fail his final year exam, they will have no choice but place him in the programe similiar to the EM3. I feel sad for her.
West Grove also has extra classes for the low ability students, to help them catch up with other students. They have special classes for students who cannot read at P1. They have parent volunteers to help teach these students.wwcookie:
I don't agree. My older brother studied in a \"no name\" primary school. He got into Raffles Institution. He was known as the \"maths genius\" in RJC, and he eventually won a scholarship to study in a prestigious university in UK, and returned as the top Singaporean student. Both my parents had never attended school before, and were unable to help him at all. At that time, there were no GEP and no streaming. He owe his academic success to the gift he was born with, as well as the education system in Singapore which gives all students, whether rich or poor, a chance to excel. That is why I feel that the GEP is not necessary.I agree its necessary to have programs like GEP cos without it, the truly gifted kids will be left with nothing! They will be forced to languish in classrooms that cater to the majority of kids. Their potential will never be realised and they will just totally give up and 'switch off' mentally.
wwcookie:
I agree that MOE should lower the profile of the program. The model in Canada which I posted earlier, is a low profile and unobtrusive program, which I hope that MOE will adopt.Maybe the MOE should lower the profile of the program, like make it 'underground' so that it is less contentious? And the program should really start at P1 in my humble opinion. Im sure all the parents here with these kids will agree with me - the kids will be spared most of the confidence and self-esteem problems they faced in school and will be much happier.
EN:
If the system can properly identify gifted kids at a young age, then at least the kids can have teachers who are trained to handle them in a sensitive and understanding manner. But the tough part is how to identify them. Some kids may even refused to be tested.Yes, if only identifying starts earlier, my son will not be so hurt by the teacher telling him to sit & not answer any more questions even though none of the class mate has the answer. How does my son feels being totally ignored because he reads too much & remember what he reads?
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wwcookie wrote: [quote]Re compassion and grace, these should be largely taught at home. We should not put all blame on the school because our children are not compassionate or graceful, should we?
Re feeling superior, it also depends on what is being taught at home. We never told our boy that he is gifted or cleverer than the other children. In fact, we didn't even tell my in-laws about it. We always tell him that everybody has their own strengths, like his friend may not be good at reading but he's good at running. What is most impt is to do one's best.[/quote]I totally agree with wwcookie. Compassion and grace should starts from home. School helps to reinforce but parents should set good eg.
As for my son feeling superior than others, just like wwcookie, we never tell him that he is different. And yes, in-laws & friends does not know it either. Those who knows (classmate's parents, teachers, neighbours, close friends) happen to notice as they are close by in his every day lives. -
tamarind wrote:
[quote]From what I read, West Grove offers the high ability students extra classes in more advanced maths, research, etc. These students continue to attend normal classes with other medium/low ability kids every day. This is very different from the gifted program, where the kids attend \"special\" classes every day. Kids in the gifted program are separated from other kids of \"lower ability\", and in a way they seem to be more superior than others.
West Grove also has extra classes for the low ability students, to help them catch up with other students. They have special classes for students who cannot read at P1. They have parent volunteers to help teach these students. [/quote]Hi tamarind,
Please dun get offended. If you have kids in the P2 or higher level, you will properly know after finishing P1, the top 5% will be single out and put in the top class and they are also mixed with children with \"high ability\" just like themselve only. Is only the recent Banding system allow them to mix. But how many of this \"lower ability\" student get the chance??? No one know.
I just want stressed that the GEP kids are just normal kids like yours and mine. Dun label them like some people use to label children from EM3. -
I did not actually teach my elder daughter. I just started reading to her when she was very young. She could recognised all colours before she turned 1yo. Started talking & singing at a very young age.
At about 3yo, she could recite more than 25 long titles on the content page in their right sequence by reading 2-3 times to her. Teaching her nursery rhyme, Tang poem was also easy. She could read at around 4yo I think. When I brought her to the entry test at 5yo for the 'I CAN READ' programme, she could read all words that was tested, the tester took out the advance book and she could read them with no swear. The tester even tested her on a list of words (words with no meaning but just a bunch of alphabets link together), she could also read all of them. So in the end, the tester told me to bring my dd home..... :lol: .
She did not attend any phonic class, I just read & read to her everyday since she was 3mos old, and used her photos to make books with short sentences to encourage her to read.
She started going to art & ballet classes at 5yo and did not attend any pre-sch because I had to changed 4 or 5 pre-schools during her K1 until I gave up and kept her at home. I did sign her up for chinese enrichment class (once a week) for one year when she was 6yo, but stopped before she started P1.
She requested to learn piano just before she started P1, and is going to take the ABRSM grade 5 practical exam next month, she is 9yo now. She loves reading science books and was able to do P3 English & Science assessment before she entered P1. I taught her simple numbers bond at 3yo and by 5yo, she could do 2 & 3 steps of simple problem sum from P2 assessment book. Btw, I did not buy those assessment books, it was passed down from a friend's dd.
She has no tuition class so far and seem to do ok with her sch work. Well, except chinese....she claimed that she has an ang-moh soul under her chinese skin :roll:. So I transferred her to a SAP sch, hoping to waken up her chinese soul that was suppressed by the ang-moh's ..... :twisted: .
I'm never good in my study, so I'm very blessed with a clever gal like her. I'm doing nothing to expand her academic ability, I'm more intersted in her character development, EQ & AQ (Adversity Quotient, turning obstacles into opportunities). Her scope of interest in reading now is on books of how to deal with people, her current favourite book is Tongue Fu!: How to Deflect, Disarm, and Defuse Any Verbal Conflict. -
tamarind:
From what I read, West Grove offers the high ability students extra classes in more advanced maths, research, etc. These students continue to attend normal classes with other medium/low ability kids every day. This is very different from the gifted program, where the kids attend \"special\" classes every day. Kids in the gifted program are separated from other kids of \"lower ability\", and in a way they seem to be more superior than others.tamarind:
I don't agree. My older brother studied in a \"no name\" primary school. He got into Raffles Institution. He was known as the \"maths genius\" in RJC, and he eventually won a scholarship to study in a prestigious university in UK, and returned as the top Singaporean student. Both my parents had never attended school before, and were unable to help him at all. At that time, there were no GEP and no streaming. He owe his academic success to the gift he was born with, as well as the education system in Singapore which gives all students, whether rich or poor, a chance to excel. That is why I feel that the GEP is not necessary..
tamarind:
I agree that MOE should lower the profile of the program. The model in Canada which I posted earlier, is a low profile and unobtrusive program, which I hope that MOE will adopt. .
tamarind:
Sorry tamarind, no offense but I find your stand confusing. When you say that GEP is not necessary, you sound like you don't agree to any form of differentiated learning tailored to the abilities of the students, yet you want to enrol your daughter in West Grove which offers such a program. But not all schools offer these kinds of programs so what happens to those kids who are in these schools? Every kid should be valued and I truly believe that these kids deserve to get an education that is tailored for their different needs.If the system can properly identify gifted kids at a young age, then at least the kids can have teachers who are trained to handle them in a sensitive and understanding manner. But the tough part is how to identify them. Some kids may even refused to be tested.
Tamarind, maybe you are trying to say that some kind of differentiated learning is necessary but should be low profile and unobtrusive, unlike the current GEP program? -
wwcookie:
I realized that I do sound confusing
Sorry tamarind, no offense but I find your stand confusing. When you say that GEP is not necessary, you sound like you don't agree to any form of differentiated learning tailored to the abilities of the students, yet you want to enrol your daughter in West Grove which offers such a program. But not all schools offer these kinds of programs so what happens to those kids who are in these schools? Every kid should be valued and I truly believe that these kids deserve to get an education that is tailored for their different needs.
Tamarind, maybe you are trying to say that some kind of differentiated learning is necessary but should be low profile and unobtrusive, unlike the current GEP program?
I did not put my girl into West Grove because I knew they have those programs. In fact I only read about it in the newspaper a few days ago. I have started PV at the school more than 1 month ago, at that point of time I thought that they did not have any such program, but that is perfectly fine for me. My plan is to let her follow the normal curriculum, then teach her interesting and useful things at home, for example, computer programming and robotics. More importantly, let her have more time to do what she likes, which is drawing.
From what I understand, what West Grove is offering, is not differentiated learning. All kids of different abilities follow the same curriculum every day. But high ability(HA) kids have extra lessons outside of the normal curriculum. It is like ECA. I find this unobtrusive compared to the GEP.
I feel that if extra lessons are offered, we always have a choice. My girl can choose to learn advanced maths, or research, or nothing at all. Unlike the GEP, there is no choice but to do everything that is required in the program. Like Japanese Haiku ? If a child loves to draw, will the GEP allow her to draw all day ?
According to the article :
West Grove Primary in Jurong West serves as the enrichment centre for high-ability pupils across the schools in the area.
Once a week, a bus picks pupils up for their maths classes, run by trainers recommended by the Education Ministry's Gifted Education Branch. Through the selection tests for the GEP in Primary 3, the branch identified these pupils as high-ability achievers.
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gifted:
No problem. I enjoy the discussion here, and I am happy that the thread has grown to 9 pages ! It is good to see different opinions here. While I am quick to assert my opinions, I also totally respect other people's opinions.
Please dun get offended. If you have kids in the P2 or higher level, you will properly know after finishing P1, the top 5% will be single out and put in the top class and they are also mixed with children with \"high ability\" just like themselve only. Is only the recent Banding system allow them to mix. But how many of this \"lower ability\" student get the chance??? No one know.
I just want stressed that the GEP kids are just normal kids like yours and mine. Dun label them like some people use to label children from EM3.
When I was in primary school, they also put the best students in A class. I was in the best class in RGS more than 20 years ago. We were grouped based on results. No parents back then were pressurizing the kids to get into the best class. The kids were simply grouped according to their ability. There were 13 classes, our principal purposely ordered the best class number 13, so outsiders would think we were the last(worst) class. All classes had the same teachers who teach the same syllabus. Students in the best class simply learn faster, finish their work faster, and need a lot less help. In fact, our Physics teacher was so bad, nobody could understand what he was teaching. But every girl in the class till scored A1 for Physics. We simply learn on our own. I haven't heard of any girl who had tuition teacher back then.
Is it true that the GEP always have better teachers ? I worked as a relief teacher at RGS for about 2 weeks, after I graduated from university. I taught Physics to the gifted class. The girls told me how bad their Physics teacher was, and some even asked me to stay and teach them.
Actually I only have problems with the way the GEP is implemented, not with the kids. -
Hi Tamarind,
The GEP not necessary have better teacher. They only have teachers that are specially trained to handle them. They are already very smart, learning very fast and most of them already know even before the teacher teaches them. They also have relief teacher which allow them to do their own things and later play catch up by supplmentary lesson.
Before my girl opt for the programe, I also think why it is necessary to have GEP. When you have your so called special child enrol in a just normal neighbourhood school, the child will be bored. Not in P1 or P2, but P3. Imagine only less than 10 children go through the first round. She will complain to you that the teacher is slow in teaching. Why can't she has more freedom to do whatever she likes. Why her friends just dun understand her? She has to lower herself to be on par with them which make her very unhappy.
With the GEP, she is allow to learn at a much faster pace and learn things that she always long for. But there are some other problems too. Actually, sometime I find that the GEP students are quite relax. They dun really have a lots of worksheets to do and some task are given amples time to do research. With that they can learn more outside the classroom and time management. Trust me, GEP isn't that bad. The programe have improved a lot. They have cater to the need of the child and not like the drilling method when you and I were in school.
Make sure they get to mix around with children of all level and always remain them that they are no different from anyone of them. If you dun tell everyone that she is from the GEP, then no one will know rite. :lol: -
gifted:
Hi Tamarind,
The GEP not necessary have better teacher. They only have teachers that are specially trained to handle them. They are already very smart, learning very fast and most of them already know even before the teacher teaches them. They also have relief teacher which allow them to do their own things and later play catch up by supplmentary lesson.
Before my girl opt for the programe, I also think why it is necessary to have GEP. When you have your so called special child enrol in a just normal neighbourhood school, the child will be bored. Not in P1 or P2, but P3. Imagine only less than 10 children go through the first round. She will complain to you that the teacher is slow in teaching. Why can't she has more freedom to do whatever she likes. Why her friends just dun understand her? She has to lower herself to be on par with them which make her very unhappy.
With the GEP, she is allow to learn at a much faster pace and learn things that she always long for. But there are some other problems too. Actually, sometime I find that the GEP students are quite relax. They dun really have a lots of worksheets to do and some task are given amples time to do research. With that they can learn more outside the classroom and time management. Trust me, GEP isn't that bad. The programe have improved a lot. They have cater to the need of the child and not like the drilling method when you and I were in school.
Make sure they get to mix around with children of all level and always remain them that they are no different from anyone of them. If you dun tell everyone that she is from the GEP, then no one will know rite. :lol:
gifted,
Thanks for sharing more insight into the program. I really appreciate it
Did your girl start out in a neighbourhood school, and move to a school with the GEP program ?
We don't have kids of the same age in the neighbourhood, so my girl's only chance to socialize is in class. I am not sure whether she will be happier in a class of kids of the same ability as her. She seems to be very happy now in her K1 class of kids with a wide range of abilities. We tell her that there is always something she can learn from other people. I think her teacher handles the kids pretty well. The teacher will ask her to teach other kids to read. When she finishes her work fast, the teacher will give her some paper and let her draw, since she loves drawing.
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