Real reason behind Singapore’s obsession with tuition
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pixiedust:
the non returning of test papers, release scores only based on banding, to me, an old fashioned person, is totally irresponsible and really warrant a petition to MOE that this warrant a standard policy decision.verykiasu2010:
...That is totally irresponsible not to be able to see where the mistakes are and where the improvements need to be made. The principal probably knows the teachers are just simply any how mark the test papers ? ...........This is a dangerous school to be in.......
Well, whoever has the power to make the decision probably doesn't think it is irresponsible, or has other \"constraints\". I've checked with my friends, some of their kids school return the paper to the children in class (but not allowed to bring home) and also release the score, but there is ONE other school which also refuses to release the mark and return the paper so our school is not the only one. One of my friends even wrote to the new Education Minister on this.
Again, policy or whatnot, this is what is happening.
Why must parents fight these \"wars\" with the schools ?
No, I don't expect all supermarkets to be Tanglin Mall Market Place.
but for government primary schools, I would expect all to have similar framework eg. NTUC. I can accept services and selection may be better at certain branches, there should be a baseline that all should cover. Like some kind of \"standard of business operation\".
If we have Tanglin Mall Market Place and wet markets, then can we shake our fingers at those who don't stay near Tanglin Mall and had to go to wet markets, and consequently denied access to some resources/knowledge, to want to go tuition ?
Especially at the first 12 years of education when students need solid grounding of principles and concepts, they need to know where they make mistakes and how to improve from them. Even teachers make mistakes in marking at times. Students need to know where they got it wrong and where they got it right. The worst scenario is the blind leading the blind.
It is precisely because of this (and other issues), some schools are more equal than others even though they are the 'same'. But this is just as in PSLE, as the normal distribution curve shows the spread of the different level of students' scores, so there is also normal distribution of principal's ability and strength. Some are more able to motivate, understand what / how things work and get the best out of the situation / teachers / constraints .... while some try to reinvent the wheel to see whether it could be made rounder by doing fancy stuff. -
One of the reasons why schools refuse/reluntant to return graded exam papers or individual marks for some items back to students is becos the schools want to avoid/minimise those marks to be challenged by the parents. The schools and the teachers must be very confident of their grading and be prepared to defend their grading (or be brave to admit their grading mistakes).
My dd’s school release all the papers and detailed marks. But the school also has to handle the parents’ queries and feedback. For oral, there are parents who challenge the teachers on why so and so can get one mark more than their dd. For compo, the parents also challenge (the school also releases the compo by the top scorer). The same apply to Science and Maths papers. Last year, the teachers re-graded the science paper after feedback from parents.
I can understand the dilemma the schools and teachers are in. Hopefully, all the schools and teachers do think that returning the papers back to the students is important as it forms a feedback loop of the students’ learning. Hopefully, we parents can also be kinder to the teachers and trust/respect their professionalism in grading.
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alng:
:goodpost:One of the reasons why schools refuse/reluntant to return graded exam papers or individual marks for some items back to students is becos the schools want to avoid/minimise those marks to be challenged by the parents. The schools and the teachers must be very confident of their grading and be prepared to defend their grading (or be brave to admit their grading mistakes).
My dd's school release all the papers and detailed marks. But the school also has to handle the parents' queries and feedback. For oral, there are parents who challenge the teachers on why so and so can get one mark more than their dd. For compo, the parents also challenge (the school also releases the compo by the top scorer). The same apply to Science and Maths papers. Last year, the teachers re-graded the science paper after feedback from parents.
I can understand the dilemma the schools and teachers are in. Hopefully, all the schools and teachers do think that returning the papers back to the students is important as it forms a feedback loop of the students' learning. Hopefully, we parents can also be kinder to the teachers and trust/respect their professionalism in grading.
it takes a very enlightened school management to do that, and fortunately many schools do that -
verykiasu2010:
hmm.. I disagree with the example.. I feel it below is more accurate..
if you take bus, please don't say it is a policy to take bus
if you are chauffeured, don't say it is a policy not to take bus
it is absurd that people can ascribe it to MOE policy when it is very much principal's discretion and decision point, and then everything is MOE's fault again
If the bus is full and yet the bus captain stop to pick up more passengers and let the passengers squeeze and squeeze, don't assume it is the policy of the bus company to encourage overcrowding when it might be the bus captain own discretion to overload the bus..
What the people experienced is not a matter of choice, but a result of someone's decision, and the someone may not be the one who sets policies.
Anyway, the last part.. agree.. I presume you're only referring to the one teacher take 2 or more subject situation.. which, according to you, is not a MOE policy.. -
oxyleo:
:goodpost:It is evident not everyone's experiences are the same. Do note we may all be comparing experiences occurring within different timelines. Some of us have kids who are already working adults. Some have kids who are too young or in lower pri to even fathom the stress encountered in upp Pri. Some don't even get involved with teaching their children. Hopefully we can all try to understand from the experiences shared by everyone here in its rightful context.
If we are always stuck in an air-con room, it's going to be difficult to understand someone's complaint about the horrific sweltering heat.
If we are used to driving or being chauffeured around, it is going to be difficult to understand why some people complain about bus delays in the sweltering heat. We may want to try it for ourselves first before brushing it off as a complaint. It is also way different if you are dressed in exercise gear for a leisurely run, and shower thereafter, vs perspiring in the heat when you are dressed in work attire heading for the next 10 hours of work. Very, very different experiences.
If we visit The Marketplace at Tanglin Mall for weekly grocery shopping, we are not going to understand why everyone else seems to complain how overcrowded every other mall seems to be on weekends. -
limlim:
oh, agree agree
hmm.. I disagree with the example.. I feel it below is more accurate..verykiasu2010:
if you take bus, please don't say it is a policy to take bus
if you are chauffeured, don't say it is a policy not to take bus
it is absurd that people can ascribe it to MOE policy when it is very much principal's discretion and decision point, and then everything is MOE's fault again
If the bus is full and yet the bus captain stop to pick up more passengers and let the passengers squeeze and squeeze, don't assume it is the policy of the bus company to encourage overcrowding when it might be the bus captain own discretion to overload the bus..
What the people experienced is not a matter of choice, but a result of someone's decision, and the someone may not be the one who sets policies.
Anyway, the last part.. agree.. I presume you're only referring to the one teacher take 2 or more subject situation.. which, according to you, is not a MOE policy..
the overcrowding of buses is because although no harm trying to fill the buses but the bus company forgot to increase the frequencies esp in the densely populated heartland estates.....they should put more buses on the route or open up more route to cater to the increased demand due to more households staying there -
alng:
It is for the benefit of the students that papers are returned for their reflection and awareness of the mistakes that they may have committed.
I can understand the dilemma the schools and teachers are in. Hopefully, all the schools and teachers do think that returning the papers back to the students is important as it forms a feedback loop of the students' learning. Hopefully, we parents can also be kinder to the teachers and trust/respect their professionalism in grading.
IMO, it is unpardonable crime if the school deprived the students of this segment of the learning process just so as to make their own work easier, and not have to answer parent's queries..
How to manage the queries is something they have to work out themselves..
It is plan irresponsible to do away with the returning of the papers. -
It seems that there are currently 3 practices on the returning of marked compo exam papers which are frequently deemed more difficult to explain the marks as they are marked by different teachers.
1. Some schools return to the children to bring the papers home (Completely open system)
2. Some schools show the paper to the children and then collect back (Half-open system)
3. Some schools do not even show the children the paper, not to mention about bringing them home. Only provide the scores. (Completely closed system)
4. Some schools do not even split the compo marks to release but just give an overall English mark, not to mention looking at the paper. (Extremely closed system)
Category 1 and 2 are familiar practices amongst my friends' kids' schools and mine. Category 3 is the first time I am reading in this forum which needs to be flagged out to the respective school. I agree that if there are sensitivities, at least let the children understand where they have done well or where they need improvement as every exam is also a learning process so Category 3 needs to get at least into Category 2.
I believe this is another area where there is no policy stated from MOE hence the varied practices.
Edit to add: I have added a Category 4 which is shocking to me but I am willing to hear good rationale behind such a practice, maybe it is something out of the box that my mind cannot reach...
Now Category 3 looks good next to Category 4... 
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ksi:
my boy was in Category 3 for past 3 years. the first time and last time they ever saw their Compo papers were on the exam day itself. even our request to see the paper on PTM were turned down.It seems that there are currently 3 practices on the returning of marked compo exam papers which are frequently deemed more difficult to explain the marks as they are marked by different teachers.
1. Some schools return to the children to bring the papers home (Completely open system)
2. Some schools show the paper to the children and then collect back (Half-open system)
3. Some schools do not even show the children the paper, not to mention about bringing them home. Only provide the scores. (Completely closed system)
Category 1 and 2 are familiar practices amongst my friends' kids' schools and mine. Category 3 is the first time I am reading in this forum which needs to be flagged out to the respective school. I agree that if there are sensitivities, at least let the children understand where they have done well or where they need improvement as every exam is also a learning process so Category 3 needs to get at least into Category 2.
I believe this is another area where there is no policy stated from MOE hence the varied practices. -
Actually for compo, many parents would want to know how kids fared. That is Paper 1…if kids feel that they did ok, they have confidence to move on and not worry about it. For compo, most schools will NOT even show kids nor tell them the grades…Category 3. If it is P6, especially, there is no harm telling us parents the grades? We have every reason to find out how we can help kids improve.
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