Are you ready for 7 million people on tiny Singapore?

[concern2]

toddles:

Hmm... I don't think yang er fang lau is wiser...

better 靠自己... have children because you want to, because you think it's meaningful, not because of their perceived economic value to you in old age...

that's why we're called the sandwich generation. look after parents (too late liao, they 养儿防老 mentality so didn't save for their own retirement, we bo pian have to provide for them), look after kids, gotta save for own retirement cos really shouldn't expect kids to have the means to look after us in old age.

times are different... those who believe they can still 养儿防老 are probably setting themselves up for disappointment. not that the kids are not fillial, but it's just going to be increasingly hard for them...

Don't you see, that is the irony of it all. Last time parents 养儿防老, but in a way, that takes care of society's needs! Although they might have been thinking of their own nuclear family, ultimately, it is each individual household that make up the population and the society. And when everyone has similar mentality, we wouldn't have the same problem as we have today, being reminded of how we are having a smaller working population taking care of bigger aging population.

On the other hand, it could also be the more challenging environment that results in the change in people's mindset towards 养儿防老 - possibly Western influence, challenges in bringing up children in the new era, and people not wanting to be a burden to their children. Not saying these change in mindsets are no good - just that they aren't benefiting economic growth, and the reason why we need immigrants

[sleepy]

Say we grab people from the streets & ask for their opinions, I seriously doubt anyone would wholeheartedly support this overpopulation plan.


Problem is decision makers are not listening. They have already decided (apparantly) and are now merely trying to pitch to everyone else that they know best.

They certainly look very determined to proceed with this plan, regardless of what Singaporeans said.

[limlim]

ngl2010:

3Boys:

You may have seen this before


http://www.theglobalist.com/storyid.aspx?StoryId=8321


Is Population Growth a Ponzi Scheme?

The basic pitch of those promoting population growth is straightforward in its appeal: \"More is better.\" Joseph Chamie, who has spent a lifelong career as a demographer, including 12 years of service as the director of the United Nations Population Division, finds that more is not necessarily better.

This is a must read. :goodpost:

:goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost:
[quote]According to Ponzi demography, population growth — through natural increase and immigration — means more people leading to increased demands for goods and services, more material consumption, more borrowing, more on credit and of course more profits. Everything seems fantastic for a while — but like all Ponzi schemes, Ponzi demography is unsustainable.

When the bubble eventually bursts and the economy sours, the scheme spirals downward with higher unemployment, depressed wages, falling incomes, more people sinking into debt, more homeless families — and more men, women and children on public assistance.

That is the stage when the advocates of Ponzi demography — notably enterprises in construction, manufacturing, finance, agriculture and food processing — consolidate their excess profits and gains. That leaves the general public to pick up the tab for the mounting costs from increased population growth (e.g., education, health, housing and basic public services).


[/quote]

[concern2]

hercules:

3Boys:

You may have seen this before


http://www.theglobalist.com/storyid.aspx?StoryId=8321


Is Population Growth a Ponzi Scheme?

Thanks 3 Boys, that's a great read!

I am not sure about your stand but PAP keeps wanting Singaporeans to swallow bitter pills to prevent future illnesses is very bad for their Y2016 election.

Think they will lose big time then.

WP must be busy strategising themselves, how not to win too many wards in Y2016 election, to the extent that they will be 'forced' to become the government.

Y2021 is more feasible for WP to take over if these bitter pills keep coming out from PAP.

Think that's why 3boys kept bringing up the point on whether WP is ready to take on as alternative govt. I agree that WP seem to have to prepare themselves - fast. Otherwise, siao siao, people suddenly feel buay da han, want to hood hor yi zi bai zialat zialat, then what..

[HAPPYH]

dolphinsiah:

http://i49.tinypic.com/2njkeoh.jpg\">



This is a 2008 newsclip....

MM Lee also feels it is not right to have 6.5 million people on this small dot...


MM Lee ....please Save Singapore from sinking.....
The 2 casino are already bringing in a lot of social issues to Singapore...
Now to open and raise the population to 6.9 million....
I don't want Singapore to sink.....

Wow! You managed to dig 2008 article! Great!!!

[raysusan]

[quote]Dear All,


I am PhD research student majoring in Economics and finance.

I am writing this as simply as I can. I am writing to all Singaporeans, as a Singaporean myself not to fall for this utterly disgraceful and poorly written amateurish script called the Population Growth 2030 White Paper released by Singapore Govt............[/quote]http://therealsingapore.com/content/it%E2%80%99s-propaganda-paper-disguised-white-paper

what you guys think?

[hercules]

concern2:

Think that's why 3boys kept bringing up the point on whether WP is ready to take on as alternative govt. I agree that WP seem to have to prepare themselves - fast. Otherwise, siao siao, people suddenly feel buay da han, want to hood hor yi zi bai zialat zialat, then what..

So for voters like me. I am not supportive of PAP on this population issue and I have no confidence of WP is ready to take over the government yet in Y2016. Voting either one also will land me jialat jialat. So, what can I do? Vote for SDP? Choose the lesser evil? Tikam tikam?

Whole family migrating is in my planning. Not sure where to migrate yet and of course I will pick a country which I 'think' is better than here years down the road. If my whole family quits, then you will have 'new' one in. So the local:new ratio may keep changing.

祸国殃民.

[3Boys]

raysusan:

[quote]Dear All,


I am PhD research student majoring in Economics and finance.

I am writing this as simply as I can. I am writing to all Singaporeans, as a Singaporean myself not to fall for this utterly disgraceful and poorly written amateurish script called the Population Growth 2030 White Paper released by Singapore Govt............

http://therealsingapore.com/content/it%E2%80%99s-propaganda-paper-disguised-white-paper

what you guys think?[/quote]Ha Ha!

I won't be quite as harsh, but it's interesting to note the difference between a 'white' paper and 'green' paper.

Honestly, I'm not sure it matters, but all the same, this 'white' paper needs to be looked at more as a road map than a policy intent. Certainly, it's basic tenets (as noted by WeiHan), are very nebulous, and based on these tenets, the g'ment appears to have set course already. This is what's causing the angst, I guess.

I actually have a bit of a hard time figuring out the intent of the release of this document. They are making some major geographical and infrastructure interventions, and maybe they are preparing the ground for that?

[MR06]

MR06:

octoberbaby:

One of our taiwanese friends got her PR few months after her arrival. She said her agent in Taiwan will handle all everything concerning Singapore Immigrations. She paid SIN$10,000.00 to get whole family PR status thru this Taiwanese agent.

She came her, few mths later, bought HDB 4 room flat. Few months later she rent a master-bed room in condo. Rent out her 4-rm flat. She is a study-mama, husband doing china business.

Dora1:

Nope, after MOP can rent out whole flat also. This is applicable to SCs, and PRs until the recent cooling measure in Jan this year. Prior to this, they can rent out the whole flat after MOP just like SCs. So many HDB rental units, where are the owners staying? Of cos in their condos!

Anyway, I know so many PR couples, where 1 of them convert to SC, so they bought new flats, and rent out while they went back to their home country to work. This is even during the MOP cos HDB allows renting out of HDBs during MOP if the whole family is posted overseas to work.

That's why the stats show that only a couple of thousands of PR renting out their flats. This actually excludes those where 1 spouse have converted.

So actually the weakest link is allowing 1 of the PR couple to convert to SCs. All the cooling measures or whatever other measures will not work on these people who have the intention of abusing the system and cash in on the benefits. That's why they should not allow only 1 spouse to convert. Want to convert both must convert together.

The loopholes and flouting of rules are not new and everyone knows, only those policy makers \"don't know\" or \"don't want to know\".

The \"valid reasons\" given by the spouse not converting are

1. have business interests in home country and a lot of government-linked business, so cannot convert.

2. only heir to properties in home country, the law prohibits ownership of such properties by foreigners, so cannot convert.

3. aged parents in home country, the parents are paranoid of being left behind, so cannot convert

and the list goes on..... like fake divorce......

I can bear with the overcrowding, the competition, the uncouth behaviour, the bad breathe and the arm-pit smell.... I only worry what I feared most would come true.....

We embrace savvy people who come here during the good times not because they want to be citizens or have intention to call Singapore their home.

They have no qualms in circumventing the requirements to qualify as citizens, as PRs. They are out to reap maximum gains for themselves and make a quick exit with their loot when times are bad.

What would happen to our country, our economy and most importantly our people? I don't worry about the trees I grow in my garden that started out as seedlings. I am just worried about how the mature trees that I transplanted in my garden fare when I have continuous stormy days knowing how deep their roots are...... :sad:

[hercules]

3Boys:

I actually have a bit of a hard time figuring out the intent of the release of this document. They are making some major geographical and infrastructure interventions, and maybe they are preparing the ground for that?

Many just dont trust the government anymore. The general public reaction towards this White Paper reflects this distrust to the max. PAP really needs to do something to this distrust before it becomes bad to worst. I am not totally pro WP or pro PAP but this population issue tends to swing me towards voting anyone but PAP which is worrying as I believe many maybe similar to me.

My take is the number will be compromised to around '6 million' at the end. Government will say, \"I listened to you and I did give in to a certain extent hor.\"