Any parents of gifted children here ?
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sunflower:
Hi Sunflower,
I’m just wondering out loud…I’m sure there are gifted children in China and I understand from friends who have stayed there for some years that their classrooms contain 60 students with one teacher. However, the discipline is good and everyone seems eager to learn and participate in class and I don’t think they segregate gifted children. However, gifted children there still seem to strive and perhaps come up tops? Is it a cultural thing? How do they do it? Is it really necessary to segregate them or if not, their giftedness will die off?? I know China identifies top talents in the arts and sports to be trained intensively in special schools, but didn’t hear of academic gifted schools though…
I found some articles in the archives of the MOE that relate directly to your question.
These are extremely interesting articles and I encourage anyone interested in understanding more to read. This is from the bureacrats' standpoint, but it brings me cheer to realize the thought and consideration our government has put into the entire educational programme, of which the GEP is an important part. I now know the extent and depth of planning that have gone into the planning of the GEP, which will benefit the long term well-being of our society. [Mind you, I don't quite agree - and this is a personal opinion of course- with how individual schools carry out this mandate, but that's another can of worms altogether. I don't want to digress here].
http://www.moe.gov.sg/media/speeches/2004/sp20040603.htm
http://www.moe.gov.sg/media/speeches/2002/sp05122002.htm
I'm quoting some paras that relate directly to your musings:
\"In China, the education of the gifted is catered to largely within the top mainstream schools. In middle schools affiliated to universities (usually the teaching universities), academic staff are deployed to teach gifted students in smaller, experimental classes. Another model, Beijing No 8 Middle School, which I visited last year, provides an accelerated programme of learning that puts exceptionally gifted students through a 10 year education that covers 12 years of learning or more, together with a rigorous weekly schedule of activities that challenge the students physically and in community service. In Korea, there are pull out programmes at the elementary school level, with students being given enrichment programmes that are not necessarily built upon mainstream syllabus. At the secondary and high school levels, there are specialized schools for the gifted in mathematics and science.\"
\"If we look around East Asia, we will find exactly the same phenomenon. If we look at China, Taiwan and Korea, I would say there is more stress, more overload in the system. These are the reports we get. Singapore expatriates who send their children to schools in China or Taiwan tell us it is more stressful. In Korea, there is a saying that they drum into kids at a young age, 'Sleep five hours, fail. Sleep four hours, pass'. Richard Lim, who runs Majullah Connection in the US, told me recently over the email that he was talking to some students from China who had the opportunity of studying in Singapore along the way, who spent a few years studying in Singapore. They told him that our Singapore system struck them as being much more rounded than the system that they had gone through.\"
\"Even China has no compunction in creating special paths for different talents, be it academic talents, musical talents, gymnastic talents. They have many experimental schools now which go much further than what we are proposing in our Report. Take for instance Beijing Jingshan School, one of their experimental schools, from primary school all the way up to senior middle. It provides a through-train for all its primary school students to go on to junior middle school. And the top junior middle students, the top 10% or so, are provided a through-train to go on to senior middle. If you look at some of their other experimental schools, they provide a through-train for the top students in Science and Mathematics to the top universities. Again, we are not proposing this, but I raise this as an illustration of how even China, a relatively egalitarian society, is providing these differentiated paths and not shrinking from it. Because they know that in the knowledge-based environment of the future, they need outstanding talents.\"
I have had the privilege of interviewing, hiring, and working with top grads from anywhere in the world. I love the openness and brilliance that they have brought to my life and work. It is this sort of differentiation that we should try to bring out in our kids, while at the same time inculcating values that are important to us. It is a borderless world that we live in, and it is through differentiated programmes like the GEP in Singapore and others like it in other parts of the world that may be part of the answer. -
tamarind:
When my son was in kindergarten, his teacher did just that. He was appointed as a little teacher or teacher asst and he helped the other children with their work and he really enjoyed going to school then. But now that he's in primary school, there's really no opportunity to 'reprise' this role cos the class is conducted such that they are not supposed to distract each other..
Well I am not gifted. So I do not completely understand how the minds of other gifted children work. May be they already had tuition at home, and already knew everything in the subject very well. But it will still do them a lot of good if they go about helping other students. -
Hi All,
It is very exciting to follow this thread
I really kudos to your efforts in nurturing your kids. I must say I am still far far from many of you. Feeling guilty a bit now :roll:
For me, I emphasis a lot on EQ, AQ and character development like mumwgals. I do not think any of my kids is going to be gifted and in the first place I am not gifted myself so I dun expect them to be one too!
Why I emphasis so much on these: EQ, AQ and character development is because I see myself in my own life that high IQ will not secure a great job with good $$
It is great character- leadership, high EQ and AQ that will help one in their career and life.
For example, now I have an extremely smart BROWN UNIVERSITY intern working for me for the last 1 month and I cant wait for her to complete her internship and go. And I am not the only one...luckily... infact, she was 'thrown' to my care cos the rest of the managers cannot 'tahan' her for her extreme approach- very open and talks so much as if she is the best! Yes, she is intellectually smarter than anyone in the team but she cannot produce good quality & completed work compared to my other direct reports who is only a poly grad... Very high EGO and low EQ, she just came into my office and left the paper on my desk and walked off!! And she does this to the managers... can you imagine how far this person can go? For me, I will definitely not hire her in my team! Not at all! Even she is the TOP TOP gifted student from Brown University
... just my thoughts. -
brequet posted:[quote]http://www.moe.gov.sg/media/speeches/2004/sp20040603.htm
http://www.moe.gov.sg/media/speeches/2002/sp05122002.htm [/quote]Hi brequet
Interesting articles. Thanks for sharing.
Hi wwcookie
In some top schools, since there are so many bright students in comparison to the weaker ones, opportunities to help the weaker students are lesser. Is that the situation that is happening in your son school?
My son still has the opportunities to help as the current seating plan arrange by the teacher is to have a brighter student be a mentor to the weaker ones. But comes primary two, the brighter ones will be stream to different classes & the extremely weak ones will be stream to the 3 bottom classes. My guess will be the average classess will still have the opportunity to help as the range can be between those who fails marginally to those who are in the 70-80s range.
Tamarind wrote: [quote]May be they already had tuition at home, and already knew everything in the subject very well.[/quote]If only tuition & enrichment helps, then there will be countless of gifted students in Singapore; given that society today depends highly on enrichment centres & tuition teacher. -
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mamachris:
Sorry, this is completely outside of the thread. Poor you! A lot of the interns will do well to remember they're not hired yet. Guess it won't happen now!
For example, now I have an extremely smart BROWN UNIVERSITY intern working for me for the last 1 month and I cant wait for her to complete her internship and go. And I am not the only one...luckily... infact, she was 'thrown' to my care cos the rest of the managers cannot 'tahan' her for her extreme approach- very open and talks so much as if she is the best! Yes, she is intellectually smarter than anyone in the team but she cannot produce good quality & completed work compared to my other direct reports who is only a poly grad... Very high EGO and low EQ, she just came into my office and left the paper on my desk and walked off!! And she does this to the managers... can you imagine how far this person can go? For me, I will definitely not hire her in my team! Not at all! Even she is the TOP TOP gifted student from Brown University
... just my thoughts.
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Hi All,
It’s interesting to following the different opinions each of us have regarding the education system in Singapore. My son was ‘recommended’ to take a test at the GEP dept in June this year. I took up the offer as he is always quite reluctant to go to school and he finds Math ‘very boring in class’. So I thought of taking the opportunity to see what GEP can recommend. In the end, it wants his class teacher to give him special worksheets to challenge him and then wait till he ‘gets into the gep programme’ as he is already quite accelerated (he’s a mensa member).
I am not as keen on the gep as much as I would like him to be learning and feeling happy at school for the next 4 years. He’s in a neighbourhood school and the challenge is so-so. I could do some comparisons as I was an ex-primary teacher. My question to gep dept was what if he does not get into the programme - does that mean that he will only be challenged ‘separately’ from his classmates? I am in the process of considering a transfer but being born in the year of the dragon, there are practically no vacancies everywhere, even another better neighbourhood school.
I am really in a loss as to what best to do so that he could be challenged appropriately together as a group with his friends. I quite agree with the newspaper article regarding identifying some bright kids earlier so that they can be put together to ‘enjoy their own pace of learning’.
cheers -
I believe that there is still some form of grooming besides the GEP though I am not sure if this is a common practice. In my kids' (neighbourhood) school, the children are grouped into batches of 60-80. It means that the 1st 2 classes contain the top ~20% of that level (I guess quite like an unofficial EM1 class). These 2 classes are given tougher challenges and in most internal competitions, I see these students performing at a different level from the rest. Also, while other classes are having \"remedial\" lessons, the 1st 2 classes were having \"supplementary\" lessons. :roll:
Do any parents here experience this in other schools? -
EN:
If only tuition & enrichment helps, then there will be countless of gifted students in Singapore; given that society today depends highly on enrichment centres & tuition teacher.[/quote]I don't mean that the tuition teacher can turn a normal kid into a gifted kid. The role of the tuition teacher for gifted kids, is to teach them things which are more far advanced than what they learn in school. That is what I mean that the child already knew everything in the subject.
Tamarind wrote: [quote]May be they already had tuition at home, and already knew everything in the subject very well.
Even a highly gifted kid needs to be taught. Are there any gifted kids here who can read on his/her own, without being taught at all ? Even without enrichment classes, the mommy would have been teaching the child to read. How many gifted kids can understand fractions and algebra entirely on their own ? They also must be taught by tuition teachers or by their parents.
A gifted kid does not mean that he/she knows things from birth. They also must go through the learning process, but it is just that they learn very fast compared to other kids. For example, the 7 year old boy who passed O-levels Chemistry. Does he remember things from his past life ? Of course not. I don't believe he did it without any guidance, despite what his mommy said. He probably has photographic memory. But his mommy would have at least taught him how to read, and also explained things to him.
However, I believe many parents hire tuition teachers to drill their normal kids to try to get into the GEP. I am not surprised if some of them succeeded. The GEP selection process is not that fool proof. -
heutistmeintag:
Yes this is happening in West Grove primary school. I prefer this model, because it is unobtrusive.I believe that there is still some form of grooming besides the GEP though I am not sure if this is a common practice. In my kids' (neighbourhood) school, the children are grouped into batches of 60-80. It means that the 1st 2 classes contain the top ~20% of that level (I guess quite like an unofficial EM1 class). These 2 classes are given tougher challenges and in most internal competitions, I see these students performing at a different level from the rest. Also, while other classes are having \"remedial\" lessons, the 1st 2 classes were having \"supplementary\" lessons. :roll:
Do any parents here experience this in other schools?
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