Can we bring our students' learning away from tuition?

[Chenonceau]

limlim:

limlim:

So, the teachers will have to do their part to convince parents that tuition is not needed..

Chenonceau:

But you can convince all you like... As long as you test more than you teach because you expect the bright ones to NATURALLY KNOW... then no parent will listen to you. Parents will turn to Teachers and ask Teachers to teach more and better. And Teachers will back off because...

Papers are set by teachers. So, the standard of the papers is also part of the parameters to convince parents that tuition is really not needed...... They should only test on what they already teach..

Thanks for clarifying. I see what you mean now. Then the (perceived) difficulty of PSLE, how?

[Chenonceau]

coast:

I believe MOE or SEAB has already done some of the above (SEAB has given official replies that they are making sure PSLE maintains the same level of difficulties ... so they must have analyse both the questions as well as the results?).

I am not sure their official replies are worth much given...

(1) the latest newspaper reports about innovative teaching methods that no one seems to recognise. Maybe it happens in 1 or 2 schools...

(2) that ever since Pamela Liew wrote in YEARS ago about tuition, the official reply has always maintained that the phenomenon does not exist

(3) until now, the official and unofficial line is still, tuition is because of kiasuparent mentality... MOE can't do anything. Official replies also said that floods are inevitable, remember? And officials also said that it PONDED and did not FLOOD. Officials can say anything they want to help their careers along.

coast:

Frankly, I am not sure whether the stress (and the over-reliance of tuition/ enrichment) is due to schools (internal exams) or MOE (PSLE). Schools (esp the top schools) have always made their internal exams more difficult than the standard PSLE/ O levels/ ... Parents/ Schools made their students practise top schools' past year papers but in actual fact, some of the questions there might be beyond PSLE complexity.

This is possible. But then there have been years when the PSLE was so difficult that good students came out crying.

coast:

Are we barking at the wrong tree? We will not know as MOE/ SEAB does not release the exact past year PSLE papers.

Yeah lor.... true standards are a big secret because if people knew, they would all aim for it... and then the PSLE won't be discriminatory anymore. The solution then is to ensure that the market does not get perfect information (whether in terms of standards nor access to educational resources). What this means is that it isn't the best child that wins, but the child that has access to privileged information (whether in terms of standards or educational resources).

The PSLE must be discriminatory you see.

[violin_lover]

Chenonceau:

coast:

I believe MOE or SEAB has already done some of the above (SEAB has given official replies that they are making sure PSLE maintains the same level of difficulties ... so they must have analyse both the questions as well as the results?).

I am not sure their official replies are worth much given...

(1) the latest newspaper reports about innovative teaching methods that no one seems to recognise. Maybe it happens in 1 or 2 schools...

(2) that ever since Pamela Liew wrote in YEARS ago about tuition, the official reply has always maintained that the phenomenon does not exist

The PSLE must be discriminatory you see.

Who is Pamela Liew?

[Chenonceau]

violin_lover:

Chenonceau:

[quote=\"coast\"]I believe MOE or SEAB has already done some of the above (SEAB has given official replies that they are making sure PSLE maintains the same level of difficulties ... so they must have analyse both the questions as well as the results?).

I am not sure their official replies are worth much given...

(1) the latest newspaper reports about innovative teaching methods that no one seems to recognise. Maybe it happens in 1 or 2 schools...

(2) that ever since Pamela Liew wrote in YEARS ago about tuition, the official reply has always maintained that the phenomenon does not exist

The PSLE must be discriminatory you see.

Who is Pamela Liew?[/quote]Her kiasuparent nic is 2ppaamm

[violin_lover]

Chenonceau:

Her kiasuparent nic is 2ppaamm

oic. The one whose kids in the university now

[Chenonceau]

violin_lover:

Chenonceau:

Her kiasuparent nic is 2ppaamm

oic. The one whose kids in the university now

Yah!!

[limlim]

coast:

Good idea but how do one track whether students take tuition/ enrichment? :?

For a start, surely all the tuition centers will have student's particulars. And MOE can make it mandatory that all centers must be registered, and submit student's particulars to MOE. If everything is electronic, it is not difficult to link the students to the schools and the subjects.

Next, they can take steps to regulate the tuition industry..

[Chenonceau]

limlim:

coast:

Good idea but how do one track whether students take tuition/ enrichment? :?

For a start, surely all the tuition centers will have student's particulars. And MOE can make it mandatory that all centers must be registered, and submit student's particulars to MOE. If everything is electronic, it is not difficult to link the students to the schools and the subjects.

Next, they can take steps to regulate the tuition industry..

I'm not saying it's a bad idea. You said so yourself that it takes some refinement so my comment is not a judgment of your suggestion.

The MOE officials will just tell ya that they have no resources for this. That's what they told me. Friend, it didn't FLOOD. It PONDED only.

[limlim]

coast:

I don't think it will work because what matters most is PSLE. Parents have access to top schools' exam papers and I have already heard on different occasions comments like this school's papers very easy, not sure how their students can handle PSLE, this school's papers very difficult, .....

Chenonceau:

Thanks for clarifying. I see what you mean now. Then the (perceived) difficulty of PSLE, how?

The real PSLE standard remains elusive..

Now, if we take away the problem faced by parents P1-P5 students, that their child is tested beyond what was taught in schools, doesn't that address most of the issue already?

Whether they want to send their kids since P1, to enrichment classes, to prepare for that PSLE 5 years later, which real standard is never know.. that, is up to the parents.

How many parent is really that kiasu? I guess not that many. Considering, say, for school exams, No tuition, 80marks.. got tuition, 81 marks.. (everything is already taught in school).. why tuition?

Parents definitely will get very anxious if, their kids can't manage the school papers.. bcoz they were not taught those. But if their can handle the school papers reasonably.. and that the PSLE standard is never known.. will they all \"rush\" to send their kids to tuition classes? I guess not.

Maybe only those students were really cannot catch up with the school's progress will need additional help. Those that can manage, doesn't need to.

Just like in the olden days when parents/members of KSP forum are still schooling.. Those who have tuition are the minority.. :evil:

[limlim]

Chenonceau:

I'm not saying it's a bad idea. You said so yourself that it takes some refinement so my comment is not a judgment of your suggestion.

The MOE officials will just tell ya that they have no resources for this. That's what they told me. Friend, it didn't FLOOD. It PONDED only.

I guess the best we can do here is to discuss whether or not it is possible to \"improve\" the situation.

As long as we agree that it \"can be done\".. the only question that remains is whether \"they want to (do it)\"..

That, is not for us to say already.. But at least we've done our part.. to provide a lead.. at least..

Not just parents who complain this complain that but provide no concrete suggestion/solutions.. :evil: :evil: