Can we bring our students' learning away from tuition?

[Chenonceau]

violin_lover:

Chenonceau:

[quote=\"coast\"]I believe MOE or SEAB has already done some of the above (SEAB has given official replies that they are making sure PSLE maintains the same level of difficulties ... so they must have analyse both the questions as well as the results?).

I am not sure their official replies are worth much given...

(1) the latest newspaper reports about innovative teaching methods that no one seems to recognise. Maybe it happens in 1 or 2 schools...

(2) that ever since Pamela Liew wrote in YEARS ago about tuition, the official reply has always maintained that the phenomenon does not exist

The PSLE must be discriminatory you see.

Who is Pamela Liew?[/quote]Her kiasuparent nic is 2ppaamm

[violin_lover]

Chenonceau:

Her kiasuparent nic is 2ppaamm

oic. The one whose kids in the university now

[Chenonceau]

violin_lover:

Chenonceau:

Her kiasuparent nic is 2ppaamm

oic. The one whose kids in the university now

Yah!!

[limlim]

coast:

Good idea but how do one track whether students take tuition/ enrichment? :?

For a start, surely all the tuition centers will have student's particulars. And MOE can make it mandatory that all centers must be registered, and submit student's particulars to MOE. If everything is electronic, it is not difficult to link the students to the schools and the subjects.

Next, they can take steps to regulate the tuition industry..

[Chenonceau]

limlim:

coast:

Good idea but how do one track whether students take tuition/ enrichment? :?

For a start, surely all the tuition centers will have student's particulars. And MOE can make it mandatory that all centers must be registered, and submit student's particulars to MOE. If everything is electronic, it is not difficult to link the students to the schools and the subjects.

Next, they can take steps to regulate the tuition industry..

I'm not saying it's a bad idea. You said so yourself that it takes some refinement so my comment is not a judgment of your suggestion.

The MOE officials will just tell ya that they have no resources for this. That's what they told me. Friend, it didn't FLOOD. It PONDED only.

[limlim]

coast:

I don't think it will work because what matters most is PSLE. Parents have access to top schools' exam papers and I have already heard on different occasions comments like this school's papers very easy, not sure how their students can handle PSLE, this school's papers very difficult, .....

Chenonceau:

Thanks for clarifying. I see what you mean now. Then the (perceived) difficulty of PSLE, how?

The real PSLE standard remains elusive..

Now, if we take away the problem faced by parents P1-P5 students, that their child is tested beyond what was taught in schools, doesn't that address most of the issue already?

Whether they want to send their kids since P1, to enrichment classes, to prepare for that PSLE 5 years later, which real standard is never know.. that, is up to the parents.

How many parent is really that kiasu? I guess not that many. Considering, say, for school exams, No tuition, 80marks.. got tuition, 81 marks.. (everything is already taught in school).. why tuition?

Parents definitely will get very anxious if, their kids can't manage the school papers.. bcoz they were not taught those. But if their can handle the school papers reasonably.. and that the PSLE standard is never known.. will they all \"rush\" to send their kids to tuition classes? I guess not.

Maybe only those students were really cannot catch up with the school's progress will need additional help. Those that can manage, doesn't need to.

Just like in the olden days when parents/members of KSP forum are still schooling.. Those who have tuition are the minority.. :evil:

[limlim]

Chenonceau:

I'm not saying it's a bad idea. You said so yourself that it takes some refinement so my comment is not a judgment of your suggestion.

The MOE officials will just tell ya that they have no resources for this. That's what they told me. Friend, it didn't FLOOD. It PONDED only.

I guess the best we can do here is to discuss whether or not it is possible to \"improve\" the situation.

As long as we agree that it \"can be done\".. the only question that remains is whether \"they want to (do it)\"..

That, is not for us to say already.. But at least we've done our part.. to provide a lead.. at least..

Not just parents who complain this complain that but provide no concrete suggestion/solutions.. :evil: :evil:

[looking4Tutor]

Tuition is a necessary evil to stream the children.

First to tuition then to school - this should be the way to move forward.

[coast]

Chenonceau:

coast:

I believe MOE or SEAB has already done some of the above (SEAB has given official replies that they are making sure PSLE maintains the same level of difficulties ... so they must have analyse both the questions as well as the results?).

(2) that ever since Pamela Liew wrote in YEARS ago about tuition, the official reply has always maintained that the phenomenon does not exist

I think they recognise the phenomenon but their official reply is \"we cannot stop parents from sending their kids for enrichment/ tuition\".

coast:

Frankly, I am not sure whether the stress (and the over-reliance of tuition/ enrichment) is due to schools (internal exams) or MOE (PSLE). Schools (esp the top schools) have always made their internal exams more difficult than the standard PSLE/ O levels/ ... Parents/ Schools made their students practise top schools' past year papers but in actual fact, some of the questions there might be beyond PSLE complexity.

Chenonceau:

This is possible. But then there have been years when the PSLE was so difficult that good students came out crying.

It might not be because of PSLE's difficulty. Just this recent 2011 PSLE results release, a parent told me that in her dd school, some kids who score 250++ cried. Why? Because they cannot get into Rxx .. So it could be their expectations (to be top 3%) rather than the difficulty.

coast:

Are we barking at the wrong tree? We will not know as MOE/ SEAB does not release the exact past year PSLE papers.

Chenonceau:

Yeah lor.... true standards are a big secret because if people knew, they would all aim for it... and then the PSLE won't be discriminatory anymore. The solution then is to ensure that the market does not get perfect information (whether in terms of standards nor access to educational resources). What this means is that it isn't the best child that wins, but the child that has access to privileged information (whether in terms of standards or educational resources).

The PSLE must be discriminatory you see.

I have been :? to think of the reasons why MOE does not release the exact PSLE past years' papers? I really dread to think discriminatory is the reason. They already have GEP (which has a small class-size ratio and I also read in KSP that GEP students have advantage in DSA) ... GEP selection is veiled (it does not bother me since it affects only 1%) but PSLE is a national exam. One MP has asked in Parliament why MOE does not release raw scores. If only that MP follows up with more questions like \"Why can't you release PSLE papers?\", \"Why are the range for grades A*, A*, .... not fixed?\"

[coast]

limlim:

coast:

Good idea but how do one track whether students take tuition/ enrichment? :?

For a start, surely all the tuition centers will have student's particulars. And MOE can make it mandatory that all centers must be registered, and submit student's particulars to MOE. If everything is electronic, it is not difficult to link the students to the schools and the subjects.

Next, they can take steps to regulate the tuition industry..

How about private tuition?

How about some parents who quit their jobs full-time to coach their kids? Parents who are both working will cry foul.